Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to not understand why Christians think Jesus died for our sins?

1000 replies

switcheroooo · 20/04/2025 10:06

If Jesus died for everyone's sins, does that mean people are not accountable for their actions? You can kill people, steal and lie but have a protected status because Jesus died for your sins.

How does this work? Why are people not responsible for their own sins? Where is the justice?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
12
DancingOctopus · 20/04/2025 12:48

The concept of Jesus' sacrifice also has to be considered in the light of the story of Abraham.
Abraham and Sarah longed for a child and Sarah became miraculously pregnant with Isaac. They were filled with Joy.
However, God asked Abraham to sacrifice this miracle child. He was heartbroken but felt he had to do as God wished and climbed up a mountain and built a funeral pyre on which to sacrifice his beloved son. God stopped Abraham at the last minute, telling him that he did not want Isaac, he just wanted Abraham to have the faith in him to give him up.
God has asked Abraham to do what any parent would refuse to do.
With the story of Jesus, here we see God willingly giving up his only son, for the people that he created. A kind of continuation of the Abraham and Isaac story, God is doing what he asked of Abraham.

Fridgetapas · 20/04/2025 12:51

Anonymouseposter · 20/04/2025 12:35

PS I don’t think asking questions is mocking Christianity and OP wasn’t disrespectful. Answers that talk about Sky Fairies and over simplify faith are disrespectful, honest debate isn’t.

Couldn’t agree more. Questions and thoughtful debate are important. I didn’t find the OPs post offensive but I’ve found many of the posts after to be.

bridgetreilly · 20/04/2025 12:52

switcheroooo · 20/04/2025 11:03

Ok that makes sense. It is not just do whatever you want with no consequences.

It is really not. Yes, it is ‘Come to me and have your sins forgiven’ but it is also ‘Take your cross and follow me’. It is ‘Jesus, my Saviour’ but also ‘Jesus, my Lord.’

From a human perspective it goes:
a) recognise your sinfulness which is
b) both the wrong things you do/say/think
c) but also and more importantly, rejecting God
d) repent of this - be sorry AND want to change
e) be forgiven
f) and be given the Holy Spirit so you have the ability to change
g) live out your life trusting that you are saved no matter how much you fail
h) live out your life following Christ as well as possible
i) become perfectly good, healthy, happy, satisfied after death in the new creation.

For some people, (g) and (h) are very short and for others very long, but the principle is the same for all.

bridgetreilly · 20/04/2025 12:56

godsmessage · 20/04/2025 11:10

This is the bit I don’t really get. If god is all powerful and wants the breach closed, why didn’t he just close it/decide to forgive sins? Why was the sacrifice of Jesus necessary- surely god could have just sorted it all out without any need for Jesus’ sacrifice?

I was raised Christian and remember saying when I was quite young that if god was all seeing, all knowing and all powerful, then he must have always been able to forgive sins and just chose not to. So Jesus needing to die for our sins seemed like an extra layer of complexity that made the story difficult to believe because it seemed illogical. I really wanted an answer to this because I’d been quite devout up until this point, but I was told that I was being ‘difficult.’

Because God is completely just and completely holy, as well as merciful and forgiving. It’s not justice to wipe away wrongdoing without any punishment. It’s not loving to just destroy sinners, which is what his holiness demands. So he squares the circle by taking the punishment on himself so that it is paid but we do not have to bear it. That is why Good Friday is so very, very good news. And on Easter Sunday we celebrated because it confirms that all the punishment is paid and we, like Christ, can have a new life.

FairlyTired · 20/04/2025 12:59

Thriwit · 20/04/2025 10:40

Does Jesus dying for people’s sins only really apply to Christians though? And if you set out to kill/steal/lie etc, then you’re not behaving in a Christian manner, so it wouldn’t apply to you.

(caveat: I’m a born & bred atheist so may be completely wrong)

It wouldn't apply if they carried on like that. I think it does apply in general if the person genuinely repents and regrets their actions. But it has to be genuine, not just doing something with the thought of "I'll say sorry and it will be fine." The person has to actually be a "changed" person and have "found" god.

bridgetreilly · 20/04/2025 12:59

Hoppinggreen · 20/04/2025 11:27

I am just reading a very interesting book about Christianity spreading across the world when it first started to gain some traction and according to that it was the first religion that actively discouraged questions as an inherent part of it.

That is nonsense. The whole history of the early church was of questioning and debate as they established a clear understanding on all sorts of questions. Some views were deemed to be wrong while others were found to be uncertain. But you could always ask the question.

Icanhearabee · 20/04/2025 12:59

Allthegoodnamesarechosen · 20/04/2025 10:54

Oh look , it’s the annual Let’s Insult The Christians on their most holy Day’ thread !

I hope the OP puts one up for Eid next year.

Exactly. Can you imagine the outrage if this type of post was directed towards other religions?

Parker231 · 20/04/2025 13:01

From a human perspective it goes:
a) recognise your sinfulness which is
b) both the wrong things you do/say/think - don’t believe in the concept of a sin. I don’t need a religious threat to know right from wrong
c) but also and more importantly, rejecting God - doesn’t exist
d) repent of this - be sorry AND want to change have nothing to repent about
e) be forgiven - what for?
f) and be given the Holy Spirit so you have the ability to change - there isn’t a Holy Spirit
g) live out your life trusting that you are saved no matter how much you fail - I don’t need saving from anyone/anything
h) live out your life following Christ as well as possible - doesn’t exist
i) become perfectly good, healthy, happy, satisfied after death in the new creation. Am happy, healthy and have a great life. On death we’re all the same - nothing happens to us other than cremation or burial.

Annony331 · 20/04/2025 13:05

Jesus death is a ransom ie something equal in value.

Sin ie death entered into the world when Adam and Eve rejected God's Sovereignty. Adam was a perfect man created by God

To clear this debt a perfect man was needed to die to wipe away the debt.

The life was the life to come.

This does not mean your sins are wiped away and you must bear any legal process but that if you genuinely give up sin you may stand a chance of life after death. Anyone can sin and be forgiven but true redemption means a change in your behaviour. You can not repent and continue to practice sin.

It is forgiven by God's standards and he judges if you are truly repentant or just saying the words.

Sin in this case was death.

Jackiepumpkinhead · 20/04/2025 13:05

Why don’t you do some research, rather than putting a goady post on here, on Easter Sunday.

Jackiepumpkinhead · 20/04/2025 13:06

Icanhearabee · 20/04/2025 12:59

Exactly. Can you imagine the outrage if this type of post was directed towards other religions?

Edited

They wouldn’t dare!

Icanhearabee · 20/04/2025 13:06

switcheroooo · 20/04/2025 11:21

I am not sure why people think I am insulting Christians on their holy day. Do religions not encourage questioning? Surely questioning can lead to understanding.

And you decided to post this on the most holy day in the Christian calendar. Sure… 🙄

Parker231 · 20/04/2025 13:11

Icanhearabee · 20/04/2025 13:06

And you decided to post this on the most holy day in the Christian calendar. Sure… 🙄

The majority of the population in the uk are not Christians and today’s focus will be on Easter eggs rather than religion.

YourFunnyTiger · 20/04/2025 13:12

I'm a Christian.
If you have truly changed your ways and believe, you will go to heaven.
If you slip up and are truly remorseful, you will go to heaven.

I don't shove my beliefs down people's throats.
If they don't believe then that's fine and I wouldn't moan about it.
What I don't like,is people slagging Christians off for our beliefs and start saying things like "go pray to your sky fairy" etc.

Parker231 · 20/04/2025 13:13

Annony331 · 20/04/2025 13:05

Jesus death is a ransom ie something equal in value.

Sin ie death entered into the world when Adam and Eve rejected God's Sovereignty. Adam was a perfect man created by God

To clear this debt a perfect man was needed to die to wipe away the debt.

The life was the life to come.

This does not mean your sins are wiped away and you must bear any legal process but that if you genuinely give up sin you may stand a chance of life after death. Anyone can sin and be forgiven but true redemption means a change in your behaviour. You can not repent and continue to practice sin.

It is forgiven by God's standards and he judges if you are truly repentant or just saying the words.

Sin in this case was death.

Sin doesn’t exist - it’s just a concept to try and make people behave a certain way. I haven’t done anything wrong so it could be said that I haven’t committed any sins.

Parker231 · 20/04/2025 13:14

YourFunnyTiger · 20/04/2025 13:12

I'm a Christian.
If you have truly changed your ways and believe, you will go to heaven.
If you slip up and are truly remorseful, you will go to heaven.

I don't shove my beliefs down people's throats.
If they don't believe then that's fine and I wouldn't moan about it.
What I don't like,is people slagging Christians off for our beliefs and start saying things like "go pray to your sky fairy" etc.

I’m a good person - haven’t done anything wrong but am an atheist - what will happen to me?

HausofHolbein · 20/04/2025 13:15

Person lives a wonderful, sin-free life. They do not believe Jesus died for their sins. Lakes of fire await.

YourFunnyTiger · 20/04/2025 13:15

Parker231 · 20/04/2025 13:14

I’m a good person - haven’t done anything wrong but am an atheist - what will happen to me?

No one is perfect.
You can go wherever you choose to believe you will go.

HausofHolbein · 20/04/2025 13:16

YourFunnyTiger · 20/04/2025 13:15

No one is perfect.
You can go wherever you choose to believe you will go.

That's not what the bible says.

Parker231 · 20/04/2025 13:16

YourFunnyTiger · 20/04/2025 13:15

No one is perfect.
You can go wherever you choose to believe you will go.

Same as everyone else - a hole in the ground!

YourFunnyTiger · 20/04/2025 13:17

HausofHolbein · 20/04/2025 13:16

That's not what the bible says.

I can't say I've read the entire bible. Gates of hell awaiting I guess.

Parker231 · 20/04/2025 13:18

HausofHolbein · 20/04/2025 13:15

Person lives a wonderful, sin-free life. They do not believe Jesus died for their sins. Lakes of fire await.

So you think I’ll go to hell as a good person?

Leafy3 · 20/04/2025 13:18

localnotail · 20/04/2025 12:24

Huge part of being a Christian (in fact, the core of it) is BELIEVING and accepting that Jesus, the Son of God, died for our sins, and was resurrected later. Without any questions. This is the nature of faith, and if you truly believe, you are a Christian.

Questioning and debating it making you a non-believer. Questioning it on Easter, a holy celebration, is highly inappropriate, but, I guess,, as a non-believer you can do whatever you want!

That's ridiculous and pertinently false. Even Jesus famously doubted.

trockodile · 20/04/2025 13:18

NorthernGirl1981 · 20/04/2025 10:54

I’ve never really understood the timeline?

If God was the first ever Being and created the earth, why did he put dinosaurs on it? And if Adam and Eve were the first humans, why did they not appear for millions of years after the dinosaur era?

And how long after God created Adam and Eve and humans began to populate the earth did Jesus come along?

And all the people who died before Jesus came on the scene, what happened to them if there was no concept of Heaven and Hell at the point they died?

Do religious people not believe in evolution?

Which goes back to the point of why dinosaurs were the first creatures to inhabit the earth and what was God’s role in all of it?

It baffles me and I would love it explained to me.

Not to mention did God also create angels? And the devil is a fallen angel-so God also created the evil serpent who tempted Eve and brought sin into the world 🤯

YourFunnyTiger · 20/04/2025 13:18

Parker231 · 20/04/2025 13:16

Same as everyone else - a hole in the ground!

And that's fine for you to think that.

Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.

This thread is not accepting new messages.
Swipe left for the next trending thread