to not understand why Christians think Jesus died for our sins?

[switcheroooo]

If Jesus died for everyone's sins, does that mean people are not accountable for their actions? You can kill people, steal and lie but have a protected status because Jesus died for your sins.

How does this work? Why are people not responsible for their own sins? Where is the justice?

Realistically we are all not going to be kind to each other. That is why we have laws even on earth. We need justice.

We must die for a reason then - to move onto the afterlife. How can heaven on earth be created? It can't be.

I think Jesus would be turning in his grave (if he hadn't ascended!) to think that his life amounted to people worrying about different details of Christian belief systems. What I get from everything he ever said is just be sound to each other and details aren't an issue. If anything, he seemed to be pretty anti-organised religion especially if it meant losing the important message.

The only unforgivable sin is not worshiping their god. If you know about that deity and don’t bow down, you are condemned. Anything else can be forgiven.

That in a nutshell is my biggest problem with the religion.

@switcheroooo I am surprised you don't hear Christians talk of the judgement, we affirm it every time we go to church - i.e. Jesus will come to judge the quick (living) and the dead.
But God is eternal so what appears to be passage of time for us is not for him, nor for those who have died who are - according to CofE doctrine - at once with God (or not, so you can pray for those who have died - not sure Baptists etc agree with CofE on this point offhand). At the end of time (but not of eternity) all will be judged, so those who were unable to join God at their death will now come before Him/Her and if they have truly repented then they will be admitted to God's eternal presence and feast. The general assumption is that God is merciful and that all who truly repent will be forgiven.

Offensive people are found in every walk of life, which obviously includes religious people. That doesn't give you carte blanche to be openly and unapologetically offensive to whole groups of people, however.

And yes, pre-Christian societies did condone murder, in many common cases. This is not a universal statement, but in the Western world there is virtually no aspect of society, civilisation or culture that is free of the influence of Christianity - including humanism.

Read the Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe OP.

That's where the forgiveness bit comes in. The happiest people I know are the people who believe completely in God and as a result are able to rise above the behaviour of others. They also don't care for material things and seem to just move through this life very serenely. It's a wonderful thing to have faith. I wish I did!

This is one religious interpretation, certainly, but I don't think its actually true of Christianity.

By which I mean, it may have been used by dogmatic churches and people to enforce social & political control, but I don't think its found anywhere in the teachings of Jesus.

The Bible may say that Jesus said "no one can come to God but through me" but that shouldn't be taken at face value. Debates about translation aside, it's a statement designed to be taken within context.

An excellent starting point but the writings of CS Lewis are not without their issues. Simply put, they are very much of their time.

I take not bowing down to mean, knowing that treating others as you would like to be treated yourself is right, but not doing it because it doesn't suit you in the moment. I don't believe you'll get punished for it in an afterlife. You'll end up miserable in this life. People who are kind to a fault are usually very happy.

So you want blasphemy laws Leafy3? If you say people can't be openly offensive about religion and the religious that is what you're advocating for. It's absolutely acceptable to be openly offensive about, eg, flat earthers, so why should religion be treated differently?

Whatever your faith we are never sure what the final outcome will be.
We hope we have it right but I like many are never 100%. I am sure there are people who have absolute faith but just as you wonder on a question, another one pops up.

The golden rule in my faith is to love the Lord and to treat others as you wish to be treated. While we hope to be the best we can be, we stumble and have days where we are cranky, upset, short-tempered, not as understanding as we could be, sharp, judge someone etc. While we try our best, we still get it wrong but we try harder. Man is complex and life is often difficult.

Let us just do our best and treat everyone with respect, regardless of faith or no faith. we are human and we get things wrong. If you wish to celebrate Easter I hope you enjoyed it and had some family time.
For those not celebrating Easter I hope you still took some me time and enjoyed the weather, time off work, the television, your family time, your hobby or similar.
I hope you were all safe, whatever your belief.

Being offended involves pride and ego which is the path to misery. Jesus definitely did not promote this.

They will repent after death? Everyone who repents after death will be admitted to God's eternal presence? So then it doesn't matter what you do on earth?

No thanks.

Why don't you have faith? You have described it beautifully!

@Grammarninja going off on a slight tangent here, but one thing from my primary school days has popped into my head a lot lately, the command about not making idols. I'm sure many Christians would say I'm wrong for taking such a simplistic view, but I do wonder if the meaning behind it was the same simple wisdom as "don't meet your heroes".

We build the famous up so much, assume everyone who shares some of our views must share all of them, and in the age of social media the backlash when someone we admire disappoints us is so great...I find myself wondering if we should stop feteing others and be more a little more accepting of the fact that that there will be moral differences.

The great figures of history are never flawless. I suppose for Christians, the only person who was, was Jesus.

Why 'no thanks'? It's a good story and also explains both original sin and the resurrection. I liked it as a child and my DC also enjoyed it. (NB I have never liked the much-lauded illustrations, though.)

You are not understanding my responses at all and come across as someone who is as keen to take offense as to give it.

I think 'idols' means worshipping an idea other than being a good person. The golden calf was an idol. It didn't take long for the 'chosen people' to go back to worshipping something of immediate value to humans (wealth) as opposed to the tenets of a happy society.

@Kardamyli2 there is a world of difference between living in a society where we have the right to be offensive and whether it's appropriate.

If someone cooked me a meal I disliked, I would have the right to spit out and throw the dish to the floor. There are no laws against it, I would not go to prison.

It would be extremely offensive to others however, completely unnecessary and an overreaction.

If I saw someone outside dressed a way I personally disliked, I would have the right to judge their taste. I would even have right to tell them their outfit was bloody awful and they looked disgusting. There are no laws in the UK that would mean I would go to jail for being so offensive.

It is unlikely, however, that many would agree it's OK for me to be so freely offensive. My behaviour in both examples would smack of having no respect for people who are different to me, or who do, say or create something I dislike.

I do, in a way. I just don't believe in an afterlife. I believe that we can attain happiness here on earth if we could just put our momentary selfishness aside. It seems that people find that very hard to do without the promise of some sort of comeuppance on judgement day. It's pretty sad that we can't do it without a looming threat.

Not murdering someone or treating someone with respect are nothing to do with religion but just being a decent and law abiding person.

I'm not taking offence at all and don't mean to come across that way. If you think I haven't understood you could try explaining? Or not if you don't want to and think anyone questioning you is just giving offence.

Gosh, you're touchy. I have no desire to try and discuss anything with someone who thinks saying mean things about a religion is inappropriate so won't reply to any further posts from you.