to not understand why Christians think Jesus died for our sins?

[switcheroooo]

If Jesus died for everyone's sins, does that mean people are not accountable for their actions? You can kill people, steal and lie but have a protected status because Jesus died for your sins.

How does this work? Why are people not responsible for their own sins? Where is the justice?

MasterBeth
You're completely changing the subject here.
I come from another, non British Empire culture. Exactly the same happened to my family too in recent history.
I don't hold it against any one, and don't want any apologies or reparations from anyone.
Now can we get back to the topic please.

British ie Christian values could be the ones taught you by your parents and Grandparents whether they were aware of it or not.

I had to look up what Christian values are. Too much religious stuff for me. I’ll stick with my own values (my parents and grandparents aren’t British or Christians).

Christian values are principles based on the teachings of Jesus and the Bible, guiding how Christians live and interact with others. Key values include love, compassion, forgiveness, humility, and faith. These values are often described as the foundation for a moral and ethical life within the Christian faith.

Here's a more detailed look at some core Christian values:
Love:
The greatest commandment is to love God and to love your neighbor as yourself. This love is also extended to enemies and those in need.

Compassion:
Showing empathy and concern for others, especially those suffering or in need. This involves acting to alleviate suffering and help others.

Forgiveness:
Extending grace and mercy to others, even when they have wronged us. This is also seen as a reflection of God's forgiveness towards humanity.

Humility:
Recognizing one's own limitations and needs, and valuing others above oneself. Humility is seen as a sign of spiritual maturity and a way of living in harmony with others.

Faith:
Trusting in God and His promises, even when things are difficult or uncertain. Faith is seen as a vital part of the Christian life and a way of connecting with God.

Honesty:
Living a life characterized by truthfulness and integrity. This involves being truthful in words and actions, and avoiding deception or dishonesty.

Respect:
Treating everyone with dignity and consideration, regardless of their background or beliefs. Respect is seen as a way of honoring the image of God in all people.

Kindness:
Demonstrating gentleness and compassion in interactions with others. Kindness is often seen as a way of expressing love and empathy towards others.

Patience:
Waiting calmly and with understanding, especially when facing challenges or difficulties. Patience is seen as a way of persevering through trials and trusting in God's timing.

Generosity:
Sharing one's resources, time, and talents with others, especially those in need. Generosity is seen as a way of expressing love and a desire to help others.

This isn't true. I'm not a practising Catholic but I know the belief system very well.
Jesus didn't die with original sin, he was baptised by his cousin so that's not what's being discussed.
Jesus died so that he could be resurrected and therefore show his followers what they couldn't believe without proof - that God existed, he was his son and that the way he was asking them to live (in kindness), was God's wish.
If he hadn't died and been resurrected, people would have gone on in ignorance. Jesus died so that others could recognise their sins and repent, knowing that there was a God.
If they hadn't been sinning all around them and not understanding the importance of being kind, he wouldn't have had to die to show them the error of their ways.

Parker231
Well I'm glad we've sorted that one out then!
You aren't British and you aren't Christian so you're not planning to live by British or Christian values . That all sounds fine to me.
Thanks also for AI update on Christian values. Personally, I didn't spot so much specifically about God/ Jesus there.
The information is useful in case anyone feels unsure what Christianity involves.

The AI (I love it) quotes have frequent references to God in it . Christian values = Christian religion.

Less than half of the British population state they are Christians.

So what Parker231?
Is this a new discussion?
I thought it was all wrapped up?

You’ve been full of criticising my values - what are yours?

I wasn't aware of criticising your values. I didn't think you said what they were, only that they're your parents and grandparents values.
My values aim at being Christian values.
If you adhere to another mainstream religion I'm more than happy to about that, if that's the issue.

My values - being a good person and having a good life. Straightforward and uncomplicated. No other mainstream religion - am an atheist.

I don't think they do predate Jesus, actually. Which isn't to say people were not kind or compassionate beforehand , but that the established societies, pagan religions and civilisations were built on other principles.* It's easy to point to other ancient religions which teach consideration, but they don't all predate Christianity and they weren't always so prevalent. Ancient societies were greatly shaped by religions and belief systems that have died out.

Tom Holland has a fascinating summary of how Christianity has shaped the world, all over.

*obviously not all cultures

Great stuff Parker231.
Now we're back to the beginning again.
Let's leave it at that?

Some people are quite gullible and will believe anything, particularly if it's rammed down their throats from birth.

A great example of being offensive about other people's beliefs

I'm quite happy to say that I think all religion is a crock of shit. Also happy to do so at any time of year.

It's not offensive to say religions are a load of nonsense, or that only the brainwashed or deluded would believe any of it. Religions are just ancient cults, or not so ancient in the case of Scientology.

Of course it's offensive to call people deluded for having religious beliefs.

Its also pretty ignorant to write off everything about every religion as nonsense, when that is objectively untrue.

To take a pertinent example - it isn't nonsense to say don't murder, or to encourage people to treat others with respect.

...although judging by your posts, perhaps you do believe that respect for others is nonsensical!

It would have been in the 1700’s and we’d probably be hanged for it. Worse is giving what I’m seeing now some do these people want us going back to the 1700’s

Jesus was apparently sent because organised religion at the time was missing the point. Everyone was so hellbent on following 'God's law' (dietary requirements and keeping certain days holy) that they'd forgotten the true message - kindness. People thought it would be wrong to save a drowning man on the sabbath because you weren't supposed to do any work. People were confused. He came to set everyone on the right path again as we'd lost our way. That's how the story goes

I find religions and religious people very offensive at times. I despise the way they use membership of a cult to try and force others to do/not do various things and their attempts (some more succesful than others) to control societies.

Do you really think any pre-religious society has condoned murder or allowed it to go unpunished? No society which did would last long as they'd all be dead. As for respect, show me the religion that has the utmost respect for atheists.

According to Jesus, a true follower would have an incredible amount of respect and love for an atheist.

I think I did this? The CofE is more open to feminism these days and there are instances in the OT where 'wisdom' aka the Holy Spirit is depicted as a woman e.g. Isaiah speaks of the Holy Spirit as a woman who looks after her household well. Jesus at least twice likens God to a female: as the woman looking for the lost coin and as a hen gathering her chicks.

Enjoy for a little while on earth for sure. You cannot say for sure nothing is going to happen to you though in the afterlife.

I think Jesus' message got totally misconstrued. He talked about creating the kingdom of God here on earth. I think he was trying to say that if we're all incredibly kind to each other, we will be creating heaven here on earth and an afterlife is not relevant. Life will be heaven in a society where everyone is loving, accepting and kind.

Belief in the Trinity is not an absolute requirement of Christianity, though most branches do so believe. What is required is belief that Jesus the Christ died and was resurrected and that his sacrifice enabled humankind to enter into God's kingdom i.e. Jesus is Saviour. Afaik JWs and Unitarians believe in Jesus as Saviour, so they are Christians, but not Trinitarians (which means that for most other Christians these branches are schisms - as is the Orthodox church which has a different view of how Jesus is related to the Godhead: this is the Great Schism of 1054).