to not understand why Christians think Jesus died for our sins?

[switcheroooo]

If Jesus died for everyone's sins, does that mean people are not accountable for their actions? You can kill people, steal and lie but have a protected status because Jesus died for your sins.

How does this work? Why are people not responsible for their own sins? Where is the justice?

But what are you classing as ‘doing wrong’? Religion and law are two totally different things. If people break the law then hopefully they will be dealt with accordingly. If people ‘do wrong’ according to God, or Jesus, but aren’t breaking any laws, then it will only affect those who believe they’ve done wrong in the eyes of God.

I’m an athiest. At heart I am a good person but because I’m human I haven’t always behaved as well as I should have. The way I look at it is, if everyone was fundamentally like me then nothing would ever get stolen, no-one would ever get murdered, everyone would always be safe on the streets no matter how late or how isolated they were. No children would ever be abused or neglected, same for animals. I may not be the cleverest person on the planet but I am one of the safest. If a so-called god had a problem with me because I wasn’t perfect then they are no god I want.

Sounds like you are leading your life in exactly the way everyone should. A pity more people don’t follow your example.

Are you seriously saying your actions have never hurt others? I find that hard to believe.

The difference between right and wrong according to you is down to your own personal interpretation.

You know you are a good person according to your own interpretation.

You seem to have difficulties in accepting that I know I’m a good person and lead a good life. I’m sorry that you find this hard to believe.

My interpretation of being a good person has a much higher bar than any religious one.

No need to be sorry. I just know that what is a good person wildly varies from person to person.

I doubt your interpretation is being a good person has a much higher bar than any religious one. That is impossible unless you know every single religious person and have seen every single aspect of their behaviour and conduct.

What you write sounds okay and all very independent and mature but IMO it's so, so misguided.
Firstly, there's the point that if you've grown up in the UK you've almost certainly absorbed Christian values without being ware of it because western society is built upon Christianity. So really, it's equivalent to a person who wants to be part of a family while not admitting they belong to the family.
Thus, avowed atheists find themselves calling on God/ religion in extremis eg praying in a terrible situation.

Secondly, it's dangerous and/or impossible to make up your own values. I'm sure many of the most evil people have sincerely believed themselves to be doing good ( in their own eyes).
The truth is that we all need an authority outside of ourselves ie a proper religion to sometimes open our eyes that our behaviour may not be so great as we imagined.
To believe otherwise IMO is a symptom of our over privileged and over protected lifestyles.

Parker231
This is ridiculous.

I’m sorry but you are totally wrong and only looking at this from a religious perspective.
Im not British, not born in the uk and dont live in the uk now although did go to school and Uni there.
Im an atheist and dont follow religious rules and indoctrination.

We have an authority to determine behaviour - laws of the land - upheld in the judiciary and not by any religion.
Most of us no the difference between right and wrong and lead our lives within the law and are good people. You don’t need to be a Christian to be a good person. Atheists and those of other religions are equally good.
I’ve never prayed to someone/something I don’t believe in and have no intention of starting now.

Your post is quite insulting - religious people commit dreadful crimes and obviously don’t follow the high standards I live to.

What - you refusing to accept I’m a good person???

Of course I've never met you!
But in my experience it's a worrying sign if people are convinced they are a good person pure and simple.
It's a fair bit of trouble to notice oneself being unkind ungenerous narrow minded.
I'm unsure where you'd get the motivation or skills to notice if so convinced of your own goodness.

But I am not perfect and because of that I will be going to hell unless I repent? Of course looking back and with hindsight I wouldn't have made the mistakes and errors of judgement that I did as I am better than that now, but that’s life isn’t it. It seems god wants us to be perfect on this earth (or else there could be dire consequences) but he didn’t make us perfect. It’s all hypothetical anyway because I don’t believe there is a god and I don’t believe in heaven or hell nor do I believe there’s a judgement day.

Parker231
No insult intended.
Now you're bringing other countries and religions into it, that's a completely different matter.
Nevertheless, if you've been educated in the UK you will have learned British values. Like it or not.

I think it’s far more toxic and unhealthy to think you’re not a good person just because you’ve made mistakes in your life. As long as you’re not some raging psycho killer or other equally dangerous person who sets out to deliberately cause harm or trauma then yes you can and should see yourself as a good person.

The good values I have are ones taught by my parents and grandparents. Not by religion or ‘British’ values - not sure what they are - are they good?

That values that you try and claim as British or Christian values are pretty much the same as most religions and philosophies the world over:

Do you others as you would be done to.

Try and reduce the amount of human suffering in the world.

There's nothing uniquely Christian about them. They predate Jesus. And they have no need for any supernatural supervision or judgement to put them into practice.

We don't need to be told what shellfish we can eat or what day is special.

Haven’t rtt. Are you really asking this in good faith? Like, really???

Doing you the courtesy of assuming that you are, this is the antinomian heresy which the apostle Paul anticipated (Romans 6:2) “Shall we then continue in so that grace abound? God forbid!”

You can’t make something perfect then give them free will and they act selfishly. They were not perfect in the first place if their free will led them to selfishness.

God creating humans to worship him is nothing short of disgusting.

I agree - nothing bad is going to happen to me because of my lack of religious beliefs. Better to just enjoy life.

For a lot of the world, British values have historically meant take over our lands and subjugate our people through violence.

The Lord God Almighty's measure for a 'good person', well, His bar is set extremely high. So high in fact that none of us are worthy of measure in our own strength. As you don't believe any of that, it is of no consequence to you.

How do we actually measure a 'good person'? I am sure you are a 'good person' by your own measure. Though compared to God's, your measure is set pretty low, to be fair - you think it's okay to tell lies (and call them 'white') and also you think it is okay to be envious (see up-thread). The Bible tells us differently. However, as you don't believe what the Bible tells us, you meet your own criteria, so sincerely, good on you. I hope you carry on being a the good person you are, and have peace.

Are you really saying you don’t know the difference between good and bad?

As a family who aren’t British, one of the reasons we left the UK was because of the Brexit vote.

BunnyLake
I think we're talking about two different things.
Yes of course everyone should respect and value themselves.
At the same time, we do need support in growing to be better person.
It's not about self-hatred but self-acceptance in the broadest sense.
The reality is that we do all need to constantly work at being a better person. That's why doesn't take away from a fundamental goodness in ( nearly) every person.

I was raised Irish Catholic, not practicing anymore but it was a huge part of my childhood.

From what I can remember, the last words Jesus said on the cross were "forgive them father, for they know not what they do" (or something like that) so he asked God to forgive people for killing his only son. I dont think that's the whole awnser to your question but that part of the story is significant. In a literal sense, God sent us his only son and we killed him, so he literally died for our sins.

I had to do my first confession before I could do my first holy communion. There are 7 sacraments if you're Catholic and first confession is one of them. I confessed to lying to my parents about something at the age of 8 and the priest officially forgave my sins. So being truly sorry and asking for forgiveness is important, you can't just sin and not care because Jesus died for us.

Looking at my own 8 year old now who isn't being raised with any of this, aside from christenings, weddings and funerals and a nativity play at Christmas. It's bizarre to think I sat in a little box with a priest at his age and confessed my sins.