to not understand why Christians think Jesus died for our sins?

[switcheroooo]

If Jesus died for everyone's sins, does that mean people are not accountable for their actions? You can kill people, steal and lie but have a protected status because Jesus died for your sins.

How does this work? Why are people not responsible for their own sins? Where is the justice?

Well, no, that's not strictly accurate. There is a lot of myth in the Bible but we also have significant scientific and historical evidence for some of the things which occurred.

E.g. Both scientists and historians agree that there was an enormous flood in one part of the world (roughly the middle east) in ancient history, which accounts for the flood stories in the Bible (re Noah) and other religions.

They're also fairly unanimous that a man called Jesus did exist at the time the Bible claims, was a radical religious teacher who was executed by Pontius Pilate. Those are pretty objective facts.

Even for those of us who aren't religious / Christian, its pretty remarkable that 2000 years ago that a man who preached compassion and forgiveness has been such a hugely significant figure and whose teaching of compassion for everyone is still pretty radical today.

@Grammarnut thank you, that's really interesting

From that Wikipedia page: Also mainstream trinitarian Christians dispute labeling nontrinitarian groups as members within Christianity.

Generally they consider themselves Christian but no one else does. Unlike all the trinitarian denominations who recognise each other as Christian even if we disagree about some things.

@switcheroooo@switcheroooosome people have recommended speaking to others and I’ll add another idea as it sounds like you still have a lot of unanswered questions - you can read what Jesus said about himself and a lot of these questions on this thread direct in his own words in the book of John in the Bible https://john.bible/
The book of John is short to read and a good summary that covers off all the big stuff. There’s some accurate and some inaccurate stuff on this thread; I always think it’s best to get it direct from the source.

@bridgetreilly that was my question to another poster: did they consider other denominations of Christianity to be Christian. 👍

It's interesting though, so many denominations now have achieved a recognition of Christianity from more traditional and orthodox churches, where once they were considered heretical.

I didn't take it as an insult. People believe different stuff. Different Christians believe different stuff to each other even. (Hence the million and one different denominations) it's fine to ask things, disagree, etc. It's interesting to read other points of view.

Ah thank you! I can’t remember who told me this - I just remember I’ve spoken about it with people before. Somebody’s basically told me that you still have to behave in a Christian manner. I’m sure at a different point somebody else told me that Jesus dying for our sins meant the original sin, and that from then onwards each human started with a clean slate in the eyes of God.

Truthfully, I find religion quite fascinating, although will admit that I find the different denominations a bit confusing at times! Over the years I’ve enjoyed talking to people about their faiths though. I was brought up completely atheist & still am. My parents have both been atheist for my entire life, but their families were/are Irish Catholic and Methodist.

Seth Rogen is in the apocalyptic comedy film "This Is the End

It explains it well.

With respect, that does not mean that the Holy Spirit is feminine. He is referred to very much in masculine terms, as is the whole Holy Trinity.
This explains it better than I can:
www.gotquestions.org/Holy-Spirit-gender.html

This really is a category question. Obviously Unitarians, Mormons, and other groups like that have a historical relationship to Christianity as a whole.

But when you try and get some consensus of what the central beliefs on Christianity are, you tend to get the bare minimum as a Trinitarian view of God, Jesus as fully God and filly human, and the necessity of baptism.

But the reason for that type of definition is for answering questions that occur within a Christian context, like is the groups baptism valid. So a Lutheran or Catholic would typically accept the baptism of an Anglican or (usually) a Baptist as being real, even though it happened outside their own church. But not that of a Mormon or Unitarian - if a member of those groups converted they would be baptized again.

If you were writing a book on the history of Christianity though there is no reason you would be obliged to leave those groups out, it would make sense to include them if you wanted to.

I'm a Christian and basically God forgives sinners who truly repent. Jesus died so that we could have eternal life, if we repent of our sins, and He's going to know if you're faking it!

It's a bit strange to me that belief in the trinity is a "dealbreaker" (re. whether someone is or is not a Christian) when it's existence is not make explicit by the Bible.

The idea of the the Trinity did not become popular among Christians until several centuries (3-5) after Jesus' death, and largely seems to have been motivated by Constantine the Great's political aims, as Roman emperor.

Interestingly though he never claimed to be the Son of God. He called Himself the Son of Man.

He was a good chap whether you believe He was holy or not, and very brave.

This is an extraordinary book, about the Bible and its creation. Immensely readable and fascinating!

amzn.eu/d/dfH3Jtm

I don't think it is. 🤷‍♀️

Interestingly there's evidence that Saturnalia isn't so closely with Christmas. I listened to a fascinating podcast about it all
Will try to find it.

I was just reading the first verses of John in the link that a pp shared a few posts up, and was intrigued to read, in which John the Baptist seems to allude to the trinity:

18 No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and1:18 Some manuscripts but the only Son, whois in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.

Probably getting a bit detailed for this thread, but I'm really enjoying this discussion!

The Harrowing of Hell. In the 3 days between death and resurrection, Jesus went into hell and saved everyone who'd been there before He died for us. Including Judas.

It's fascinating on a historical level even if you're not a believer.

I'm a believer and having an absolutely shocking time. Easter 's message has given me renewed hope.

@LittlerCharlotte I'd like to listen to that if you manage to find the podcast episode.

Like many things which I have been accepted by popular culture, the standard lines about how Christianity straight-up adopted certain pagan festivals (and Saturnalia became Christmas) isn't as strictly accurate as often made out

@LittlerCharlotte I'm sorry you're going through such a difficult time and glad you've found some hope this weekend, sending good thoughts and wishes your way. I hope you have plenty of support

I think if someone says that they think of it all as a fairy tale or they believe it is nonsense, then they are entitled to that opinion and it isn’t mocking. If they called someone stupid or similar for believing it, then that would be mocking and unacceptable.

I disagree. It’s an opinion.

Asking questions shouldn’t be an insult. Jesus loved debate. He also said ‘do not judge’ and yet here you are ‘Christian’.

The bible was written by men of faith. They were attempting to understand the world they were in. Because you don’t understand the words doesn’t mean that a persons faith is any the less.The important thing is and has always been the teachings of Christ. How to treat each other and lead a decent life based on consideration of others. So stop your nitpicking. No one is asking you to go to church. My faith is now between God and me. It has so many times supported me in bad times and led me through them.