To be devastated by what DS has done or am I over-reacting?

[Acunningruse]

Short version: DS (12yo) sent a message to a family friend’s daughter (call her Lucy) saying “mate I don’t like you so don’t put kisses on messages”
😢 I saw this when doing a random check of his phone, hit the roof and have banned his phone for Easter weekend and given him extra chores.

Long version:
DS (12) has struggled hugely with the transition from a tiny primary to big secondary school. He seems to be trying to be the big I am, the cool guy.

We are involved parents concerned about social media and we check his phone regularly. I am concerned about how he speaks to girls in messages- less respectful than he is with boys. He had a girlfriend for a short while but when they broke up he and his friends were name calling her (a play on her surname, eg her Surname is Bank…) she messaged him asking him to stop and he was unkind. I discovered the messages and made him apologise to her and he lost phone and gaming privileges for a week.

We visited these family friends a few weeks ago and the mum seemed to be “pushing DS and Lucy towards each other. Rather than leaving them to just be, it was “DS and Lucy, you go to the shop together, you both sit here to watch a film…” DS was mortified by this and kept saying afterwards I don’t want Lucy to think I like her in that way.

Lucy text DS yesterday with pictures of their holiday and DS response was “mate I don’t like you so don’t put kisses on messages “

I am hugely upset by this to think he could possibly think this is an acceptable way to speak to someone. Lucy is a very sweet very naive girl (suspect SEN) who would have been devastated to read this. Im hopeful i managed to delete the message before she saw it (no blue ticks) but I can’t be sure. I don’t know if I did the right thing by deleting I just wanted to spare her feelings.

when we confronted DS he just kept saying “I don’t want her to think I like her in that way”. We talked about men and women being friends, you can put kisses in messages and it doesn’t mean anything, but he was not as remorseful as we felt he should have been.

we go on holiday today and this has completely cast a shadow over it for me. Im terrified we are raising some kind of andrew Tate wannabe-despite us being the strictest parents ever around his phone and social media. Not to mention we are going away with friends whose kids will all have their phones so DS will be an absolute nightmare sulking about not having his but we feel we have to do something.

parenting a pre-teen is all new to us (DD is 9) and every other day I feel like we are getting it wrong.

Am I over reacting? under reacting? I haven’t slept in days (sick bug in house) and I just don’t know what to do any more.

And it was only to show him her holiday photos - not suggestions of engagement rings.

He’s 12, give him a chance to learn. He wasn’t offensive, he was just blunt.

He has adults forcing him to spend time with a girl he is not interested in and not respecting his boundaries when he tells them his concerns but instead worrying that he may have offended someone and that it may affect their adult friendships.

Now there is devastation, a shadow being cast over the holiday, his phone has been confiscated and much melodrama.

I don’t know if anyone has actually said to him: it’s ok to not want to be with someone and you don’t have to do that to make others happy. It is good you were clear with her and not giving her false hope. Next time perhaps just say……[insert phrase].

Adults find it hard enough to navigate these situations let alone a 12 year old child.

It’s fine he doesn’t want to be in a relationship with her.

Its good he can be clear about that in his own mind.

Its good he can convey that to her and understands the usefulness of that clarity.

But it’s not good to a) give an order ( I mean ultimately she can put xx in her texts just as much as he is free not to put them in his) or b) not say please and 3) brutishly say “ I don’t like you” without stopping to think how that would feel to receive.

I think his message is pretty tame. I remember being bullied by boys in secondary school, and their comments were really hideous. Your son is blunt to the point of slightly dickish, but he’s 12 — I think you’re overreacting, personally.

Yes I think all of that is appropriate. I also suggested to op she gives the phone back before the holiday.

But him not deserving to be punished ( which he doesn’t) and the wording being “fine” are two separate things.

eta sorry: typing with back pain and it was gobbledygook!

@Calliopespa

But equally he is 12 years old. Many adults struggle to get tone right via text, never mind 12 year old boys.

I'd have been mortified if my parents monitored and criticised all my conversations with friends at that age. It is massive overreach on the part of the OP to be policing her son in this way.

We’ve cross posted and I agree he’s learning. But if he’s not told it was badly handled, he won’t learn.

I think he needs his phone back after a chat and my issue was not that he needs punishing ( which he doesn’t) but rather with the people saying his response was “ fine” ( which it wasn’t.)

I’ve not read the full thread and I’m probably not the first person to say it, but just in case: nobody should put kisses in text messages, it’s just stupid.
(it’s even worse on forum posts)

It is a bit.

Sometimes on here I think people use it as a way of saying “ I come in peace” when tone is hard to determine.

ETA I quite often ping back a text response or message then realise they xx’d me and I then feel I’ve been a bit cold. It can just be a way of labelling the exchange as friendly.

@Calliopespa

It wasn't 'fine' in the context of a conversation between adults.

However, it is not necessary or appropriate for parents to be policing the content of text messages between friends in my view.

And in fairness, sometimes 12 year old girls struggle to get the tone right too. The xx might have been very innocent. She’s probably livid he assumed she meant anything by any of it when in her mind she was trying to be nice to the poor socially awkward, standoffish boy who visited! 😆

Its interesting that a boy, and he is still a boy, according some on here shouldn't be allowed to set any boundaries when it comes to girls and relationships.
So much for teaching about consent.

Of course he can set them.

It’s about learning how to do so.

And yet, according to some on here it makes him an Andrew Tate wannabe.

This is it isn’t it. There is so much focus on being polite and not offending etc.

I hope I have instilled into my DC that if they feel uncomfortable in a situation they mustn’t worry about offending someone in the process of extricating themselves from it.
In my mind I am thinking of an adult putting a child in an uncomfortable situation - be they someone they know or a stranger - as we spend a lot of time teaching them to be polite etc but want them to know it’s sometimes ok not to be.
However, it can be confusing for a child - when is it ok to be assertive or aggressive about boundaries, when to be polite, etc.

I am fully aware that a 12 year old girl is not a monster but there can be a lot of confusing and seemingly conflicting advice going around a child’s head.

yeah well that’s gross overstatement.

Comparing him to Andrew tate because he was instilling kind/ firm boundaries is a bit much.

What I want to know is on what planet does a 12 year old boy even want to look at holiday photos. I think the OPs son is perfectly entitled to say no kisses. I definitely feel that the OP is more scared of upsetting her friend and the daughter than allowing her son to set boundaries. I noticed in the last update she made no reference to changing her mind about the frankly harsh punishment she has set her son.

I think this is the problem though: people want things to be one dimensional. Ergo: if asserting boundaries, then it’s fine to just be rude. The problem is it isn’t just 12 year olds, it’s adults too.

If he were 5 I’d think it was pretty standard. But by 12 we should be learning how to convey things proportionately. We can’t all navigate social interactions in one gear. Different situations call for different responses. And he only 12, he’s got it a bit wrong and that’s fine. But I don’t agree that it is inappropriate to get him to reflect on that.

It is confusing. If these things weren’t confusing there would be very few threads on MN. But I don’t think op is wrong for feeling his response needs work. (Though I’d give him back his phone …)

I think we are agreeing

The problem is that at this age they aren’t old enough to handle communication via text message and all the responsibilities that come with it! My 11 year old DS has a phone and I feel like I spend a lot of time trying to “coach”
him through messages/what’s app and getting him to see that context is everything… they haven’t totally got the hang of face to face socialising yet so messages is hard….

Exactly. He's only a kid and doesn't want to be coerced, not a big deal. I daresay the girl shrugged it off soon enough.

He'll learn.

Yes quite possibly! 🤣

Its not easy raising children!

They are so immature at 12.

If I had a 12 yo Dd and a friend was trying to push her Ds on her in a ‘boyfriend’ way I would be very very uncomfortable, cross, even. I would think it ok for her to over react a bit in pushing him back.

But his treatment of his ‘girlfriend’ was very very bad. He is too young g to have a Gf, but rather than sanctions I would have out my energy into talking to him about respect. About not teaming up with other boys to talk about girls. About free choice and consent, and people are allowed to finish ‘relationships’.

Talk to him about havjng girls as friends. He seems confused that this is possible.

yet it happened.