To be devastated by what DS has done or am I over-reacting?

[Acunningruse]

Short version: DS (12yo) sent a message to a family friend’s daughter (call her Lucy) saying “mate I don’t like you so don’t put kisses on messages”
😢 I saw this when doing a random check of his phone, hit the roof and have banned his phone for Easter weekend and given him extra chores.

Long version:
DS (12) has struggled hugely with the transition from a tiny primary to big secondary school. He seems to be trying to be the big I am, the cool guy.

We are involved parents concerned about social media and we check his phone regularly. I am concerned about how he speaks to girls in messages- less respectful than he is with boys. He had a girlfriend for a short while but when they broke up he and his friends were name calling her (a play on her surname, eg her Surname is Bank…) she messaged him asking him to stop and he was unkind. I discovered the messages and made him apologise to her and he lost phone and gaming privileges for a week.

We visited these family friends a few weeks ago and the mum seemed to be “pushing DS and Lucy towards each other. Rather than leaving them to just be, it was “DS and Lucy, you go to the shop together, you both sit here to watch a film…” DS was mortified by this and kept saying afterwards I don’t want Lucy to think I like her in that way.

Lucy text DS yesterday with pictures of their holiday and DS response was “mate I don’t like you so don’t put kisses on messages “

I am hugely upset by this to think he could possibly think this is an acceptable way to speak to someone. Lucy is a very sweet very naive girl (suspect SEN) who would have been devastated to read this. Im hopeful i managed to delete the message before she saw it (no blue ticks) but I can’t be sure. I don’t know if I did the right thing by deleting I just wanted to spare her feelings.

when we confronted DS he just kept saying “I don’t want her to think I like her in that way”. We talked about men and women being friends, you can put kisses in messages and it doesn’t mean anything, but he was not as remorseful as we felt he should have been.

we go on holiday today and this has completely cast a shadow over it for me. Im terrified we are raising some kind of andrew Tate wannabe-despite us being the strictest parents ever around his phone and social media. Not to mention we are going away with friends whose kids will all have their phones so DS will be an absolute nightmare sulking about not having his but we feel we have to do something.

parenting a pre-teen is all new to us (DD is 9) and every other day I feel like we are getting it wrong.

Am I over reacting? under reacting? I haven’t slept in days (sick bug in house) and I just don’t know what to do any more.

There was no reason to say "I don't like you"

We've all got it wrong sometimes @Acunningruse especially with our first! I've definitely flown off the handle, said things I shouldn't have and generally fucked it up quite often. We're muddling along trying our best.

However, the next step is to admit you've got it wrong. Even better if your husband can do it too. It's really powerful for boys to see men apologising, getting it wrong, backing down and changing their thinking. At the end of the day you're dispelling the macho view that men don't do these things. You have a great opportunity to model this.

I think you’re overreacting a bit to this. I especially think it’s a big jump from a boy saying he doesn’t want kisses on messages from a girl he doesn’t “like” in that way whose mother is “pushing” her towards him, to being an Andrew Tate wannabe! Adolescence has a lot to answer for 🤣

I do see why you’re a bit worried especially after he’d been mean to an ex, and if you notice him talking in a different way to girls generally. I do think this particular message was ok if a bit clumsy and yes I’m sure she’d have found it hurtful, but he is 12 trying to navigate a slightly awkward situation and you say he can be a bit black and white about things. Boy/girl interactions at that age are often awkward and feelings can get hurt but it doesn’t necessarily mean anyone is in the wrong. I wouldn’t have punished him for this at all but offered some help instead in wording a tricky message. I’d have come down hard on him over the way he was treating his ex, and would try to have a conversation with him about why he speaks to girls differently and why that might be etc. if you are observing that. But I’d let this one slide for sure. I agree he was trying to draw an appropriate boundary and he wasn’t being deliberately nasty or overly harsh about it from the sounds of things, maybe just a bit blunt/lacking finesse in how he went about it.

It’s unclear whether he meant “I don’t fancy you” because like can mean fancy.

I think OP needs a non-judgemental conversation about Lucy and to check stuff like how often Lucy is texting him etc because as someone with friendship issues, it could be excessive and annoying ds hence the need to try and create distance.

These kids are like 13- they are navigating things that adults struggle with like how to speak sensitively but not be a doormat.

My kids are a lot younger than yours so I can’t say what I’d do. But I would probably use it as a teaching moment. It would probably be his dad that spoke to him tho. Ask how he feels when he gets rejected, explain that there’s a nice way to do it. Also a good opportunity to talk about if someone continues to persist after you reject them and how to handle that. Maybe tell him the anecdote of the 60 year old customer who was in love with my DP when we worked together.

Not at 12 years old with access to the World Wide Web, photos and social media.
No privacy at this age when it comes to phones IMO.

Setting a boundary is doing something he himself has control over e.g. not handing over his number in the first place or blocking her if he felt the communication crossed from welcome to unwelcome. Telling someone how they write to him is not setting a boundary.

I am not suggesting he needs to pander to someone else's feelings at the expense of his own, but let's not pretend his message was "setting a boundary".

https://blog.personaldevelopmentschool.com/post/8-key-differences-between-setting-boundaries-and-needing-control

All of this is tricky and nuanced. He needs help with how to navigate this type of interaction.

I don't agree with that @ForAzureSeal. In my view it is perfectly reasonable to tell someone that you find their behaviour inappropriate or uncomfortable, and ask them to stop.

There was if he does not like her.

@noworklifebalance : My teens do not send messages with kisses to anyone so if they were to get one especially in this context then they would likely be a bit freaked out.

I think a lot of people are missing this important factor. All those posters saying he doesn’t realise that some people just put kisses without it meaning anything are sounding as naive as they think he is. This age group has different ‘norms’.

And even if Lucy herself didn’t realise this and her texts weren’t intended the way he’s taken them, I would also argue he’s done her a favour by being explicit about not sending kisses. She can learn from a peer what others will take the xx’s to mean.

@SeaSwim5 He didn't say (any version of) "I feel uncomfortable with you putting kisses on your messages so I won't be able to respond/will block you if you continue" (this would be setting a boundary - saying what he will do)

He said "mate I don’t like you so don’t put kisses on messages". (He is telling her what to do)

As I say - a nuanced difference but a difference.

I’d be disappointed too. I think teaching him tact and kindness is the thing to focus on here.

I like that he called her mate. There's no real reason he should have different words for girls or boys and he's made it clear it's friendship, not a romantic relationship.

He obviously is using 'like' to mean fancy or find attractive. He doesn't mean she's not his friend, but that it's not more than that.

Exactly. It probably sounded quite reasonable in his head, tbh. He didn’t say “stop texting me” or anything like that. I also agree with the poster who commented about his use of ‘mate’ being a positive thing.

edit to say that was also you, @Noughtpercent !

The first incident was worthy of punishment but the second did not warrant one. He wasn't being rude, he was telling her that he's not interested. He has the same right as a girl has when telling someone they're not interested, before it gets messy.

Teach him the proper way to respond to people. I remember my own son being a bit blunt at times. The way boys talk/text each other is pretty brutal compared to how girls do. This is my experience in raising three boys (first two are step kids who lived with us) and a girl and friends’ telling me. Your son has not seemed to pick up on how to tactfully convey a message.

so true. Sometimes I get cross with Joe my children deal with things and need to remind myself what they need is help with how to do it in a better way

It's not nice he sent it, but he's 12. I think dragging this out is all a massive overreaction.

Likely he's doing it because he's worried he's being pushed towards a friendship with Lucy and in his immaturity, doesn't know how to deal with it.

If you come down hard on him, it's kind of ignoring the reasons behind it and no doubt he will be too scared to confide in you in future.

Massively over reacting, whats the matter with you?

Why can girls have boundaries and boys cant? If i girl told a boy told to put kisses etc, she'd be applauded for being strong and confident and standing her ground. But a boy does it and he's punished,

I feel so sorry for him. God forbid he say how he's feel. Keep teaching him to suck up his own feelings because of females.

How about girls be respectful of boys!

Boys dont want kisses on messages at 12. Its gross and inappropriate and you should be telling her mother not to send unsolicited kisses to boys.

Why? He wasnt rude or nasty.

Hes 12. Why should be be tactful. He said how he felt.

His mum’s friendship with Lucy’s mum has probably complicated things because he probably felt that he couldn’t say no to giving out his number (hope OP didn’t give his number out ) If he’s forced to see Lucy in future because OP is friends with her mum then it would be awkward if he blocked her so he can’t do that plus blocking or phasing her out means he could be in trouble with OP.

Tbf , learning to be tactful, is not a bad thing. In most situations it tends to be beneficial. It cuts out a lot of drama, especially at that age.That doesn’t mean he should be punished for his lack of tact. Just talked to (not at) and modelled to him better phrases to use.

I’ve reread the OP again and on several occasions, ds said that he wants to make it clear to Lucy that he doesn’t fancy her but his feelings seemed to have been ignored to save Lucy’s feelings. How do you think Lucy will feel when her mum has built up this friendship with ds as bigger than it is ? Her reaction to you telling her to calm it down is a red flag. Lucy’s mum seems to have taken advantage of your people pleasing tendencies to get what she (and by extension Lucy) wants and ignore ds’ feelings. It would be polite if he posted the odd like to her stories but he seems to be struggling with the situation.

Somebody fancying you but you not fancying them back is hard enough without parental pressure to be friends with the person who fancies you. If you were Lucy’s mum would you honestly force the person that your child fancies to hang out with your child ? In an ideal world you could have a chat with Lucy’s mum and she’d say that Lucy doesn’t fancy ds which would be a massive relief for him.