To think I can't be the only person who doesn't know a single trans person

[VioletSpeedwell]

Seriously.

The news is full of people worrying about how the SC ruling will affect people who identify as trans.

Where are they? Not in my office (large organisation), my family or social groups. I don't come across any in the village where I live or when I go into town.

DD is at university and doesn't know any trans people.

Surely, I can't be the only one?

Something I’d never really considered when reading about trans women who have sexually attacked women is the argument that they identify as lesbians. The default assumption is that they are men masquerading as women to gain access to women in order to attack them, but I hadn’t spent too long considering there will be some who genuinely identify as women but are attracted to women also. So they are ‘legitimate’ trans women, but the fact that most have transitioned after they have acquired significantly more muscle mass etc through testosterone during puberty makes them more of a threat physically than female lesbians who attack other women. I haven’t heard of any of this happening, although I assume it has, probably because women would find it harder to overpower other women. The only cases I’ve heard of involving sexual assault is where a woman has presented herself as a man and deceived another woman into a sexual relationship.

Are you obliged to refer to these people using the wrong words?

Are the mixed sex toilets regularly checked for mess and cameras? Women have been shown to be less safe in mixed sex facilities.

Great result for you then, eh.

Do you understand though that there is a huge range of negative impacts to women and girls though where their needs have been dismissed and ignored? Or because you are alright, everyone else must be too. That everyone else is just hating others and there is no issues to be resolved.

it’s the patriarchy and awful men who are threats to women

Yes indeed. And some of those awful men have been ‘identifying as women’, either to get into women-only facilities, or to steal women’s jobs/ awards/ sports prizes. Or to enjoy watching the woman they’ve raped being forced to call them “she” in court. Or to carry out intimate procedures on women who daren’t complain. Etc

I never did think that and I don't think it's what I said either?

That is why I am asking though.

Because that is how I read:

"I've seen many trans-women, this is the one that I know who has had the surgery and I have compassion for her. I know that she is not a woman but I also know that she would like to be afforded the dignity of being not thought of as a man.'

If you don't like the thought that someone would be thought of as a 'man' what is it that you think that person should be thought of? To me, the only alternative is that they would be a woman.

Do you see the issue? I am trying to work out the dissonance here.

There is no dissonance. I was talking about a specific member of my very small, membership-only gym. This person is still male, regardless of whatever surgery, nothing changes that. I was talking of being compassionate to them by not making it awkward for them in the changing room and I would use whatever pronouns accordingly.

We didn't have the judgement then, not much recourse. We do now so the point is moot. This person will need to find another room to change in and not use the women's facilities any longer.

I'm kicking myself for commenting in the first place; this thread feels in very bad faith.

Ok. Thanks for clarifying.

@couchparsnip It's the female communal space that give women succour, a place to flee to, to get help from other women, flee men, etc etc. Evidence has repeatedly shown that single cubicle banks put women in great danger.

mumsnet has become a transphobic cess pit.

its a toilet for goodness sake

Is this supposed to be parody? 🤔

No, Mumsnet is overwhelmingly populated with people who don't think the rights of people born with penises trump the rights of people born with vaginas.

I have no idea why anyone is shocked by this.

For women. Not men.
Doesn’t actually matter what it’s used for, women are entitled to exclude men.
Tough shit.

I've had two miscarriages in a public toilet.

Transvestite?

I don’t know of your preferences but normally no one comes in the toilet with me - but each to their own I guess

Did you understand a single word of @MissScarletInTheBallroom ’s post?
Is it a general difficulty with comprehension of the written word?

So putting my rights over the demands of men who want to be women is transphobic?.never heard that definition of transphobia before but if you say so

We cannot make policy based on people's personal anecdotes. It doesn't matter if any of us knows a trans person or not - those who do know trans people can't extrapolate their one or two personal connections to every trans person, plus people don't necessarily know friends that deeply, never mind acquaintances.

We need to firmly stick to data.

@Arran2024 exactly. I was friends with a lovely man once. Wouldn't hurt a fly. Super protective of women. He's now doing a life sentence for the rape and murder of several young girls. You never really know anyone.

Ah, ok. I’ll stop feeding it…

If you think women believing their rights are not subordinate to men's is transphobic, that says more about you than it does about Mumsnet users.

But thanks for saying the quiet part out loud.

#OperationLetThemSpeak