To think I can't be the only person who doesn't know a single trans person

[VioletSpeedwell]

Seriously.

The news is full of people worrying about how the SC ruling will affect people who identify as trans.

Where are they? Not in my office (large organisation), my family or social groups. I don't come across any in the village where I live or when I go into town.

DD is at university and doesn't know any trans people.

Surely, I can't be the only one?

I have a friend who has 2 stepdaughters.The older one ( now 18) decided , during lockdown that she was non binary, and would go by they/ them.She changed her name to a gender neutral one. Then she decided she was a he. Name stayed the same but the pronouns became he / him.Huge shouting matches about being misgendered when people used they instead of him Sometime later she decided to go back to non binary and they/ them. After lockdown ended she refused to return to school and was home educated. Her sister is 4 years younger and was an entirely ordinary heterosexual, female presenting biological girl. She also decided that she was non binary and changed her name to a name that works for both sexes.She also decided to refuse school and now attends a pupil referral unit when she feels she can cope . The older one is now miraculously at university. She is dating a young man who identifies as a woman. Her father describes it as living in pronoun hell .

I knew a couple of TW when I worked for the NHS. One caused heaps of problems and moved on. Constantly complaining about patients being offensive and misgendering him. It was a dementia ward!
Sadly I met far too many teenage girls who were camhs patients and identified as male. They all had complex mental health issues and history of CSA. I completely understand them wanting to identify out of being female but I hope they get the help they need as mutilating their bodies will not resolve their trauma.
Personally, my nieces partner is a trans man. Hardly anyone knows and she hasn't taken any hormones so most just think she is a butch lesbian. Which I guess she is.

The ideology these days though is that you don't even have to change your appearance, take hormones or have surgery to be trans. You just have to say the magic words 'im a woman/man' and that's that..

All the TRA and allies screeching 'you're denying their existence, you want them dead!! get on my nerves frankly.

Trans have always been around and no one really minded until the TRA started demanding everyone say they are 'real women' and women couldn't have their own spaces. Nutcases like India Willoughby saying they are biological women and have cervixes and menstruate. And don't get me started on lesbians having to accept that some lesbians have penis' and if they refuse to fuck.them they're transphobic.

It's the TRA who have ruined everything for transgender people just wanting to get on with their lives, Not the so-called terfs

You are the one that is being ignorant here. And misinterpreting science. Firstly, there are no 'female' or 'male' brains, and no actual scientific evidence for this pseudoscience. Secondly you can't test for 'gender' which is a feeling, only sex. So you used the wrong term.

Thirdly, intersex and DSD conditions are sex specific and reinforce the sex binary. They are not a 'third' sex. All intersex/DSDs people are either male or female. Lastly, intersex societies have asked that you stop weaponising them in this debate. So have so some respect.

You answered your own inane question.

Being trans is not only about clothing. One way some trans people seek to affirm their gender identity is through the stereotypical accoutrements of that gender, including clothing.

I’m as anti-gender stereotyping as they come, but I don’t pretend the stereotypes don’t exist and don’t have meaning within society.

So it’s pretty understandable why someone struggling with their identity tries to fit in with a group through appearance.

It’s not just clothing, but it can be a part of it.

You are being ridiculous and acting like trans is a 'third sex' or something. 98% to 99% (depending on which country's stats you're looking at) of all sex offenders are male. This is fact. So it is OVERWHELMINGLY a male problem. Transwomen are.....MALES. And 92% according to medical data, retain their penis and testicles for life.

We're talking about a male with penis and testicles, in a female space. Do you finally get it now? That male isn't any safer just because he is wearing a dress, you know.

By removing our rights to safe female only spaces, you are the one taking us back to the dark ages. You're as someone on this site put it yesterday, taking a shit on the headstones of our foremother feminists who fought so hard for these single sex spaces. All to appease males in dresses. Handmaiden! Shame.

Yes, I bet there are many stories like this. Some social scientists should look into it.
dd is at university (3rd year) and there are a few around who claim to be non-binary but I think even there it is on the wane. If all the people in admin and teaching who seem to have invested so much into this ideology would only let go, this would be over in no time.

Trans have always been around and no one really minded until the TRA started demanding everyone say they are 'real women' and women couldn't have their own spaces. Nutcases like India Willoughby saying they are biological women and have cervixes and menstruate. And don't get me started on lesbians having to accept that some lesbians have penis' and if they refuse to fuck.them they're transphobic.

Exactly, the problem is the overreach of those who insist that gender identity should be considered above biological sex in all cases.
Stonewall have even tried to get ‘sex’ removed as a protected characteristic.

I don’t care how someone dresses or how they wish to see themselves, but they should not be able to demand that I and everyone else has to go along with their self image - especially if it disadvantages me and other women.

The thing is, workplaces that are 'toxic' in this regard have increasingly become the norm, not the exception – especially big corporations, because they have fully signed up to the Stonewall ideology, and daren't lose their 'Stonewall diversity champion' status by deviating from it.

Preach! If the statistics were THIS compelling regarding any other category of people, noone would have any issues drawing the rather obvious conclusion that one group poses disproportionate risk to the other.

Trans id men know they can prevail over us physically, it's why they're always angling for a fight. "You think you can stop me? I'd like to see you try." Pesky male conditioning rearing its ugly head again. They are vicious towards women who don't fold in the face of their demands. Death and rape threats aren't uncommon. It's male entitlement and aggression through and through.

This person seems not to know the first thing about safeguarding. All they have is obfuscations and falsehoods. Trying to understate the very real danger men pose to women and children. As if MVAWG is a meaningless acronym and women are raped (during wartime en masse) simply because they couldn't be bothered to defend themselves.

Just wanted to add to your point about TiMs remaining intact- a longitudinal study of post operative trans identified males in Sweden found that those men RETAIN a male pattern of offending. Castrated (chemically or otherwise) men are men and have no business being in women's single sex spaces.

@Ecocool which uni.

Yes it swept through my older DC school about 6 years ago it was a fashion and completely attention seeking

That wasn't the issue at hand. PP said she can always tell a transgendr woman on appearance. Simply not true.

I know one through work who is female to male,

BIL is a bit odd in various ways and he's more of a transvestite than transgender.

There's an old bloke working at my local m&s on the self service who looks like a man completely except he wears a skirt. I don't know the ins and outs of it though

This. I'm 60 this year. When I was doing A levels at a sixth form college in the early 80s we didn't have to wear uniform anymore. It was the time of the new romantic moment ( Human League, Adam Ant, Boy George etc). I lived in a very rural , beef farming area where you might expect that men would be expected to be 'real' men. No, not at all. There were plenty of 17 and 18 year old men on the bus wearing frilly blouses and putting on make up. Some were gay some had girlfriends. It just wasn't a big deal. They didn't think they were non binary or changing their sex by wearing frills. They were just enjoying the fashion. If you'd told us, all those years ago, what would be happening now we'd never have believed anything so daft

With respect, I absolutely would.

I know two trans men, both of whom I assumed where biologically male until they told me they were trans.

Yep
But that's ok, it's "collateral damage" apparently (which is usually trotted out on these threads when people say that they have been harassed or challenged for their looks when out /in the toilets)
Then there's those like the delight I saw a while back on here saying "I'm alright with being challenged, thought of as being a man so everyone else should be - just need to toughen up!"
🙄

I'm also old so remember the Jan Morris transition, the documentary about Julia Grant and the outing of April Ashley.

My DGM was very good friends with Roberta Cowell who was the first in Britain to have the surgical transition.

I think that as a rule you can tell someone is a trans woman. I was looking at some pictures just now of April Ashley and I think it would have been very difficult to tell when she was young that she wasn't female, but as she aged it became more obvious.

For whatever reason I think it is different with trans men, however. I have seen at least three where I would not have known.

Lastly, most females who are mis-sexed have no problem with it, shrug it off

I do. So speak for yourself.

I'm in a walking group. 50/ 50 split of men and women all aged 50 to 65. We had a transwoman who joined for a couple of walks. 'Rose' was late one day so we were standing in the car park waiting. We had a new member that day who had no idea we had a trans member. One of the others looked down the road and said " Oh Rose is just walking up the road". New member ( a man) looks and says " Nah that's a bloke". No 'side' no agenda, no nothing. Just said what he saw. You can always tell.

I think that you mean that you are the ignorant one.

Please link us up to the evidence that gender 'differentiation' is occurring in the brain after birth.

From all the studies, and papers that I have read this is not evidenced at all. Yet you are here repeating it as if it is fact. If it was true, don't you think that the clinicians would be using it as a diagnostic tool?

Well I guess many women might be upset if people thought they were male.
But I'm one of those who wouldn't care if it happened to me. Not that anyone else shouldn't care, but yeah I'd rather someone challenge me if it helps keep predatory men out. I know I'm a woman and I couldn't give a toss what anyone else thinks. Besides, I wouldn't personally find it that much of an insult. Are men such hideous looking creatures?

And so, do you believe that female people being misgendered should be either a reason for female people to stop acting in concern that a male person has entered a space they need to be female only, or that it should be a reason to not exclude all male people?

How do you know that the person you refer to cannot always correctly sex a male person?

Are you saying that just because you cannot, that no one else can? That is a bold claim.

I'd rather someone challenged me than share a single sex space with actual men. Any woman who did so would be looking out for the safety and dignity of all women.