To think I can't be the only person who doesn't know a single trans person

[VioletSpeedwell]

Seriously.

The news is full of people worrying about how the SC ruling will affect people who identify as trans.

Where are they? Not in my office (large organisation), my family or social groups. I don't come across any in the village where I live or when I go into town.

DD is at university and doesn't know any trans people.

Surely, I can't be the only one?

I have seen this girl on the tube walking in front of me - very slim, dressed beautifully. But I noticed her because she was very tall and... very narrow? She literally had no hips. I thought idly that its an odd figure for a woman. I saw her again sitting on the train, and it was definitely a TW. Super beautiful, but definitely not a biological woman. No idea how you can tell but it was obvious.

In theory, it's about equality. But when you look more closely, it's mainly men, predominantly white males whom are the ones shouting loudest. As well we know, they are not a small minority. They're the patriarchy.

I am 100 percent certain that the vast majority of people that know them are not aware.

Its hard to hide when you know people well or from a young age!

Pretty much everyone i know is in a hetero couple with bio kids. Having birthed babies is a sure fire way to spot a woman.....The only person i know well with no bio kids (only adopted), has had ovarian cancer... another dead giveaway of a woman.

I may "know" some people around me (eg people in my office whom i don't know well) who are trans but i don't have anyone in my friendship group etc who is. There is definitely one transman at work as he was openly having a conversation with someone about a health issue relating to it at work. He was short for a man (only about 5ft 6) and i think if he'd shaved off the beard he wore, would have looked very effeminate.

There are quite a lot of physical signs of growing up female. Hips noticeably wider relative to waist, flatter brow ridges, softer jaw line, height, hand and foot size.

Laws are all about how things are worded and precidents, all of which have the potential to create confusion when being applied to legal males.

It isn’t hate to state biological facts that are material to the lives of women and girls. It’s such a childish and immature attitude to take calling people ‘ignorant haters’ because they believe in facts and you don’t.

I know 2, but I do live in a large city.

I know a friend of a friend whose son is transgender. Nobody directly.

I’d like to know too

I know young people that are trans. It’s easy to forget amongst all the “ gotcha” arguments that young people are just inexperienced. They do make poor decisions and life changing medication and surgery to solve a mental health issue is a bad move IMO.

I do distrust older men who are trans. It always feels like they are getting something arousing from it rather than the being at peace with themselves idea . I agree with PP who said they look “ smug” in the ladies.

The only people who really pass are babies and the very elderly.

There is a misconception that all trans women dress in makeup, heels and are attempting to look very girly. The ones I know are slightly dowdy middle age women in the Haley from Coronation St mould.

Wow, this has really gone from ‘do you know a trans person?’ to debating passing.

MN is horrifying at times but hey girls, enjoy having trans men in the loos and if you look a bit masculine, be ready to have your gender questioned 🤣

I was walking along London Wall a few weeks ago and was behind a very tall, slim woman, the sex assumed solely based on hair, jewellery and outfit. There was something off about the way they walked though, and the jewellery looked odd too. There was just something that made me pretty sure she was a TW. I noticed a group of men do a double-take as they walked passed her, but it wasn't a good double-take, more a wtf. As they turned to walk down a side street, I saw they were a biological man.

Most women can always tell. Yes, it we might not notice immediately, but we always notice there's something off.

I worked in a school until recently.

we maintained a list of students who wanted to change name and what pronouns they wanted to use.

in any academic year there would be between 10 and 100 of them in the whole school (2000 people).

it started as just a few but then it got absolutely massive and there were so many students on the list.

some of them changed name and pronouns on a regular basis which frankly didn’t help get it right.

Cambridge area.

whether these teens were or are trans is anyone’s guess.

That I’m a transphobe because I understand and believe in biological facts that are material to the lives of women?

You have every right to your beliefs but they don’t translate to facts or into law. Beliefs and opinions aren’t facts, and in my line of work facts are crucial, as they should be in life.

100% this! I've seen several that fit that description and, whenever I do, I always feel like I'm being trolled.
I'll never forget one I saw wearing a short pink sparkly dress, white stilettos and cheap blond wig on the tube in London. They were going out of their way to be noticed and were succeeding... for all the wrong reasons!
I looked at them and felt personally insulted, like: 'Is that REALLY what they think sums up a "woman"!?'

That's OK. I could describe him, but honestly, it'd be a lot of waffle.

My children are 20 and 17 and the difference between the numbers of their peers who are claiming to be trans or non-binary are staggering. In my 20 year old dc's year group pretty much everyone claimed some special gender ID, kids were ostracised from their peer group if they refused to put pronouns into their SM profiles, almost everyone clamed to be pansexual, two are taking hormones and are crowdfunding for surgery. In my 17 year old's year there aren't any, it has completely died down. This trend has well and truly peaked.

Yes, a TM who I’ve known since before transition. Always struggled with self esteem and MH issues. Very likely autistic but not diagnosed. Actually has become more withdrawn since transition (which is worrying).

There used to be this absolutely awful TW in our workplace. Would be heard ‘raising their voice’ often over all sorts of things. I was once facilitating some health providers to run a wellness event (like free health checks, smoking cessation, advocates for cancer charities and what to check for, etc) and they came in and had a rant about how pathetic and pointless this was. I was quite young and new to the role and it was unnerving.

I live in a trans friendly city and there’s many, many trans people here. Any male over the age of 40 is immediately obvious. There was a young TW (early 20s) in the checkout of a shop I didn’t immediately notice as he was very short and feminine, but there was something uncanny that I couldn’t stop noticing. When he moved and then later spoke it was obvious.

Theres a very polite TM at our local Sainsbury. Very obviously female.

I’m not really sure it matters if there’s 1 or 1000s in a persons life though, really. Women should be entitled to their own single sex spaces and it only takes one male person to make them mixed sex.

I don't think you have to look that closely to see that it is all about patriarchy.

The 50% of the population whose needs were deemed less important than a tiny minority were women, not men.

When you look at the tiny minority itself, it's all about trans women (who are biologically male). Trans men (who are biologically female) barely feature in the discussion.

Both traditional and social media are full of men telling women that we should be kind, that trans people are more vulnerable than we are, that we are wrong about what a woman is. Some of them are now acknowledging that we should have a conversation about how to balance women's rights with those of trans people.

Well, sorry lads, that conversation has now moved on. We don't need your permission to have a conversation about our own rights, we never did, and if we'd waited for it, that day would never come. So For Women Scotland went all the way to the Supreme Court and got the five most senior judges in the country to confirm that women do in fact exist, that we have rights, that we are main characters and not supporting characters. And now you have to accept it. Go and have a conversation about something else, like why trans women feel so scared and unsafe sharing toilets with you.

Was Katie Dolatowski just trying to peacefully live his life when he sexually assaulted a ten year old girl using the women's toilets in Morrisons?

I don’t know anyone trans personally. My dc aged 20 went to a special school and there were three trans pupils in their small class.

Well that’s kind of the fault of all the posters who decided to derail the thread with ‘how could you even tell?’.

So the argument is that women should just accept any man who self IDs as a woman into women’s spaces because otherwise we’ll end up with masculine looking women instead?

I concur, you don't have to look closely, but many people choose not to scrutinise it. This thread is very much an opportunity to spell it out.

Yes, you can tell. It takes about five seconds of movement or speech. Even the trans Barbie in the movie was obvious the second he appeared. But we don't say anything as we don't mind who queues next to us in the supermarket or is mowing their lawn in the street. No one has ever moaned about that.

I know a couple (man and woman) And I see a couple more in the town / gym.

And it always seems to be biological women 'standing with' these men wearing dresses.
Meanwhile, 'Alpha' males - typically the patriarchy - have been 'standing with' biological women.
You couldn't make it up!