Page 4 | Sending love to trans people on MN and beyond

Annascaul · 18/04/2025 00:17

ginsterloo · 18/04/2025 00:15

Better to sound posh than be a pedantic twat!

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She didn’t sound posh, just wrong.

FeministUnderTheCatriarchy · 18/04/2025 00:57

ThinWomansBrain · 17/04/2025 22:32

what is very unreasonable is the number of transphobes on here.
Love to see some of your faces if any of my trans men friends joined the same queue as you for the women's loo.

Edited

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Huh?

We would be absolutely fine...Because trans 'men' are women.

We want women who identify as trans to be protected and given the medical care they need and the safe spaces they need because no matter how they choose to appear, they are women.

It's your trans 'women' friends I would have an issue with.

Valeriekat · 18/04/2025 03:06

When did they do that? The possession of a y chromosome is what excludes men from womanhood.

TeaAndTattoos · 18/04/2025 03:10

OpheliaWasntMad · 17/04/2025 21:01

Wishing all trans people well as long as they don’t undermine the rights and safety of women.

This with bells, whistles and ribbons on.

Minimili · 18/04/2025 04:09

NeedASafeSpace · 17/04/2025 21:32

NC for this.
I have crippling MH issues and attend a few support groups. One of them is for women with MH issues.
I have only been going or about 6 months, and in that time we have had trans women come.
We talk about things like rape, trauma and all that comes with it (think smear tests). Just last month, a middle aged man, complete with beer gut and beard came along to our women's group. He said he was non-binary. That day, he was a woman. He was allowed to stay. No one spoke that day.
Another time, another non-binary person came along. Beard, man build etc. But glittery eyeshadow and lipstick. They were also a "woman" for that session.

It is so much more that toilets and prisons. It is things like support groups. I can't get my head around an actual man nodding his head to our smear test and rape experiences when he has never and will never experience them.
"Real" women get their voice closed down, and we can't express them without being called transphobic.
I am not transphobic. I don't know anyone who is. We just want to preserve our safe spaces.

I’m sorry to hear this, I’ve experienced similar and it made me so angry to have the safe space invaded.

I attended a women’s group for addiction support, a lot of the women have experienced trauma and/or mental health problems and appreciated the separate groups to share experiences that are uniquely to women.
There is a similar men’s group but one man started coming to the women’s group. He had given himself a woman’s name and pronouns and was wearing a skirt and blouse but it was obvious he was very clearly a man.

We mentioned it to the group leader who assured us that she would speak to him and request he joined the men’s group.
I didn’t attend the next session out of anxiety about the man being in the group again, the next time I went there was a new leader and the TIM was still in the group. No one wanted to speak with him there and a few of the women asked the new leader what was going on, she said that they were advised to be inclusive to all women and she’d been informed TWAW.

Almost all of the women stopped attending and there were no other similar services locally.
I spoke to many of the women and we were all upset and disappointed as it had been helpful for us, we felt that we were not as important as the one man who had another suitable group he could access.

I might go back if the group is still running with the expectation that changes are made, I have missed it and I hope a lot of the other women who attended decide to try again now our voices might be heard. I know the leader didn’t agree with the decision and was just following rules.
I would like to think that if the TIM (or any others that try to join in future) is still attending that the leader feels she can now insist he joins the men’s group without repercussions to her employment.

I wonder if the OP who is so happy to be inclusive would be as happy to include men if she was in a similar position?

Tricho · 18/04/2025 04:45

NineteenSeventyNine · 17/04/2025 21:08

Trans people remain protected from discrimination by law.

As they should.

Still doesn't mean the ruling isn't correct

arcticpandas · 18/04/2025 05:10

FlowerFairy12 · 17/04/2025 21:07

Yay to no more men in women’s toilets!! Two X chromosomes makes you a woman, anything else makes you an imposter.

I don’t support men putting a dress on and pretending they’re a woman. Men need to stop perving at women in their changing rooms.

That's what I said but my answer got deleted🤷‍♀️.

NeelyOHara · 18/04/2025 06:27

ThinWomansBrain · 17/04/2025 22:32

what is very unreasonable is the number of transphobes on here.
Love to see some of your faces if any of my trans men friends joined the same queue as you for the women's loo.

Edited

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I couldn’t care less, why would I? Great, they are in the right place.

TheKeatingFive · 18/04/2025 06:34

BiologicalRobot · 17/04/2025 22:41

Nothing has changed for transpeople legally though. They still have the same rights as before.

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In fact, it's clarified things positively for 'trans men' in particular, in that they must be granted their sex based rights around maternity and pregnancy - for example.

I find it odd no one is talking about this. Almost as if the trans debate has been disproportionately focused on men wanting access to women's spaces 🤷‍♀️

ArtTheClown · 18/04/2025 06:53

Love to see some of your faces if any of my trans men friends joined the same queue as you for the women's loo.

I was working in a German city for a few months last year, and for some reason there were a huge amount of transmen. They were obvious from a mile off, and I'd feel no concern at them in the womens loos with me.

Thedownstream · 18/04/2025 06:57

YouWereGr8InLittleMenstruators · 18/04/2025 00:03

Penguinmouse, I think this is a stretch.

TRA / MRA Charlie Craggs was espousing similar on X earlier. I paraphrase: 'The ruling will backfire on butch lesbians, women undergoing chemo and women from 'other cultures' whose bodies "don't conform to Western beauty ideals" who want to use women's facilities'.

The utter misogyny dripping from CC's statement is shocking: CC clearly thinks that women don't innately recognise each other as women, but rather require a narrow set of visual markers and prerequisites to base their assessment on.

CC thinks that butch lesbians may be unrecognisable as women -the many women who love butch lesbians don't have that problem, luckily. No butch lesbian I've known has ever been challenged in women's toilets, because women tend to know another woman when they're with one.

CC also thinks that women without hair may be unrecognisable as women because we all know real women have lovely swishy tresses.

CC thinks that women 'from other cultures' (wtaf!?) may be unrecognisable as women because... well, why exactly, CC? It's so racist I don't know where to fucking start.

There will be no backlash in loos and changing rooms for any XX women; they've all always been using the ladies' without issue. Any predicted problems are dreamed up by TRAs.

Also, if they did receive any backlash surely that’s the fault of the TRAs as if men had never tried to exert their “right” to be in women’s spaces then there’d never be any reason to question the sex of anyone in there in the first place!

MereNoelle · 18/04/2025 07:09

MyOlivePlayer · 17/04/2025 23:39

I just want reassurance that trans people will be treated with kindness and fairness, and this won't be used to cause division and hurt

Reassurance from who?
the judge in the ruling was clear that trans people retain their legal protection from discrimination.

Annascaul · 18/04/2025 08:41

Tricho · 18/04/2025 04:45

As they should.

Still doesn't mean the ruling isn't correct

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Why isn’t it correct?
Are you male, wanting access to women’s spaces, or female; wanting men in women’s spaces?
If the latter, why?

BundleBoogie · 18/04/2025 08:49

I wonder when it will dawn on all of the organisations that have ‘TWAW’ policies that they have been horrendously misinformed (frequently by Stonewall) as the law hasn’t changed at all?

It’s also interesting that companies where arguably women are their core customer base like Ocado and M&S are so vehemently anti women. Ocado instantly severed all ties with Mumsnet after MN supported the calls for the level of clarity we have now received.

Personally I will be holding a very long grudge and will never shop with such businesses again.

Tricho · 18/04/2025 09:41

Annascaul · 18/04/2025 08:41

Why isn’t it correct?
Are you male, wanting access to women’s spaces, or female; wanting men in women’s spaces?
If the latter, why?

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Re read what I said before whipping yourself into a frenzy

Looloolullabelle · 18/04/2025 09:45

If trans women were really women, they’d totally understand why women’s spaces need to be protected.

miraxxx · 18/04/2025 09:47

cassandre · 17/04/2025 20:58

This isn't an AIBU. I just wanted to send love to trans people, in the UK especially, and to other members of the LGBTQIA+ community.

This hasn't been the easiest week for trans people, but there are a lot of us out there who accept you for who you are. We have your backs and we believe that eventually, tolerance and compassion will win.💖💖💖

Love from a longtime MNer and trans-inclusive feminist.

A* in performative virtue signalling. Carry on.

FOJN · 18/04/2025 09:49

NeedASafeSpace · 17/04/2025 21:32

NC for this.
I have crippling MH issues and attend a few support groups. One of them is for women with MH issues.
I have only been going or about 6 months, and in that time we have had trans women come.
We talk about things like rape, trauma and all that comes with it (think smear tests). Just last month, a middle aged man, complete with beer gut and beard came along to our women's group. He said he was non-binary. That day, he was a woman. He was allowed to stay. No one spoke that day.
Another time, another non-binary person came along. Beard, man build etc. But glittery eyeshadow and lipstick. They were also a "woman" for that session.

It is so much more that toilets and prisons. It is things like support groups. I can't get my head around an actual man nodding his head to our smear test and rape experiences when he has never and will never experience them.
"Real" women get their voice closed down, and we can't express them without being called transphobic.
I am not transphobic. I don't know anyone who is. We just want to preserve our safe spaces.

I'm so sorry you have had to deal with this. Hopefully the ruling will mean when you attend women only support groups there will only be women there.

miraxxx · 18/04/2025 09:54

MyOlivePlayer · 18/04/2025 00:12

Most trans people do. Of course you get some people who don't whether trans or not, it's those individual people are the problem, not the communities they may claim to represent

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Lol. A person in a bubble who has not seen or pretended not to see the INEVITABLE verbal and physical abuse gender realist women every single time they have attempted to speak about this in public. Certainly there was no support for the grand mothers who actually punched in the face or other women who got shouted down and abused.

Littlewasp · 18/04/2025 10:23

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

OldCottageGreenhouse · 18/04/2025 11:15

OpheliaWasntMad · 17/04/2025 21:01

Wishing all trans people well as long as they don’t undermine the rights and safety of women.

Precisely. 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

Lostcat · 18/04/2025 11:16

cassandre · 17/04/2025 20:58

This isn't an AIBU. I just wanted to send love to trans people, in the UK especially, and to other members of the LGBTQIA+ community.

This hasn't been the easiest week for trans people, but there are a lot of us out there who accept you for who you are. We have your backs and we believe that eventually, tolerance and compassion will win.💖💖💖

Love from a longtime MNer and trans-inclusive feminist.

Hear hear ❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️

biggest YANBU of all time OP

Lostcat · 18/04/2025 11:17

there are a lot of us out there who accept you for who you are. We have your backs and we believe that eventually, tolerance and compassion will win.💖💖💖

this this this this this this this

JandamiHash · 18/04/2025 11:25

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

I agree about the seperate cubicles they’re much better, but what is trans hating about refusing to pander to male delusions that because they adopt stereotypes of women, that they ARE women

JandamiHash · 18/04/2025 11:26

Lostcat · 18/04/2025 11:17

there are a lot of us out there who accept you for who you are. We have your backs and we believe that eventually, tolerance and compassion will win.💖💖💖

this this this this this this this

I accept transwomen for who they are too - men. What’s wrong with that? What makes them not-men?