Trans people

[Mog65]

Firstly, I'm a trans ally

Everyone is up in arms about trans women. What seems to be forgotten these people are human beings. Where is humanity. You have probably been sharing toilets and coming into contact with trans women every day and have no idea. You only hear about the few bad ones. In a public toilet, you go into a cubical and pee. Its not like you're sat there in full public view with your knickers at your ankles.

What has been forgotten also, as many females are changing to. So trans men. So you're in hospital in a ward. The woman in the next bed, identifys as George, clit is now a penis fully working and you're in the next bed! Same person can wander around female only spaces as the law has changed. George can now only be searched by a female. By the way George a transgender man is a pervert! All hypothetical but nobody has brought this up.

Just a thought.

Ok. I mean we are 10 years into this. IF you dont believe in single sex spaces, you don't believe in single sex spaces.

Sigh. Transwomen are men and offend at the same rates as men (at the very least).

Women don't want them in their bathrooms and other vulnerable spaces. Understood?

It's taken from MOJ stats.

I know reality is difficult for you but...

So why are there rather a lot of men who identify as women in prison with convictions for rape and/or sexual assault?? These male criminals are disproportionately more likely to be sex offenders according to Ministry of Justice data.

It clearly DOES happen and I’m mystified why you are so desperate to pretend it doesn’t and if it does it doesn’t matter. Try telling that to the victims. Heartless.

Women are also human beings. We deserve the privacy of our own spaces be that toilets/changing rooms/hospital wards/prisons. It shouldn’t be invaded by some bloke who’s put on a dress and/or had a vagina made for him.

YABU and I’m an advocate for real women and common sense.

Teddles, mate, it's over. It was only ever held together by intimidation and threats resting on an absurdity that nobody, including you and Hazel, ever actually believed. Even arguing for men in women's spaces is an admission that you know who the women are, because you literally couldn't argue for it if everyone involved was a woman.

Find another cause. There are plenty of good ones that don't involve controlling and limiting women.

This woman has knowingly caused serious medical harm to so many kids. Among them, a little autistic girl who was almost non verbal who she put on testosterone after a short zoom call aged (I think) about 13/14.

The medical malpractice suits can’t come quickly enough.

Sorry if I got the wrong poster @Bingbopboomboomboombopbam!

We may have a winner...

Can you differentiate between the humans you call "men" and the humans you call "trans women"?

If you can manage that ^ we may be able to have a discussion around safeguarding and why its not limited to a single individuals personal perception of risk.

Already posted on this thread, but here it is again. When you do read this information, please do keep in mind that if a group of male people have the same or higher risk of committing sex crimes in the UK, they carry the same safeguarding risk . If we are excluding the rest of the male population, that includes all sub groups.

Helleofabore · Yesterday 21:48

I hope this helps. It is the prisoner data for the UK.

For anyone who wants to know what should be considered for evaluating risk of this sub group of males to show that they have a risk level not less than any other male in the UK of committing sex crime, have a read through the statistics for males who have transgender identities who commit sex crimes in the UK
Firstly, This was a question answered earlier this year:

https://questions-statements.parliament.uk/written-questions/detail/2024-12-16/20298.

Question from Rebecca Paul (MP Reigate): To ask the Secretary of State for Justice, with reference to the HMPPS Offender Equalities Annual Report 2023-2024, published on 28 November 2024, how many of the 50 transgender prisoners who reported their legal gender as female were convicted of a sexual offence.

Answer from Sir Richard Dakin (MP Scunthorpe): 23 December 2024
Of the 245 transgender prisoners who reported their legal gender as male (i.e. those who now identify as women, non-binary or gender-fluid) on 31 March 2024, 151 were convicted of a sexual offence. This includes both contact and non-contact sexual offences. Offence data was not available for 1 individual.

Of the 50 transgender prisoners who reported their legal gender as female on 31 March 2024, the number convicted of a sexual offence is five or fewer. We do not provide exact data for such small sample sizes as it risks identification of individuals. This approach is in line with our standards on data disclosure

To put this into perspective with what we already knew from FOI information. I posted the information to a regular poster from FWR on another thread, who did not acknowledge the information at all, so it seems sticking the info here is appropriate:

Here is data from the MoJ

Here is an FOI request from 30 April 2024
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/populationoftransgenderoffend/response/2641337/attach/html/7/FOI%20240322022%20Annex%20A.xlsx.html

Up to the 31st March 2023, the MoJ stated that of the 88 male transgender prisoners with one or more sexual offences.

The breakdown was
48 rapes,
0 attempted rapes,
10 Sexual assault or attempted sexual assault,
13 causing or inciting a child under 16 to engage in sexual activity,
0 indecent assault or gross indecency
6 sexual activity with a child under 16
0 other
77 listed here.... BUT there is a total of 88 in the total so there is 11 crimes not noted.

Possessing or making indecent photographs or pseudo photographs of child has not been recorded in this FOI.

However, there is are further discrepancies in the data of the following when you look at TOTAL NUMBER OF TRANSGENDER PRISONERS SENTENCED FOR A PRINCIPAL SEXUAL OFFENCE.

1 causing or inciting a child under 16 to engage in sexual activity
3 rapes
2 sexual activity with a child under 16
3 Sexual assault or attempted sexual assault,

This equals 9 additional... however the sum for TOTAL NUMBER OF TRANSGENDER PRISONERS SENTENCED FOR A PRINCIPAL SEXUAL OFFENCE is 99.

Therefore 2 more sex crimes have been hidden from this data.

There were 203 males who were declared as transgender in the prison at the time.

There were 24 NB who were not segregated into male and female. What is key here, is that THIS IS NON-GRC HOLDERS. And we all know that males holding GRCs have increased and they are excluded from this data. NO female people with transgender identities were sentenced to a principal sexual offence. There were 41 female people with transgender identities in UK prisons at that time.
As a comparison, I have stats that say as of April 2019 that the general male MoJ data for male sex offenders was just 16.8% of the male prison population.

And there were 3.3% of female people in UK prisons were sex offenders.

I will leave you to do your own sums. But... even using the figure of 88/203 is 43.3%. (And that doesn't include making or possessing indecent photographs of a child remember.)

By the way this exercise was done in 2021. And I checked this data myself from the data source and it was correct at the time. So, it will give some back ground to the above.

The ones that say that in the March/April 2021 data collection period, the MoJ stated that of the 97 transgender prisoners with one or more sexual offences.

The breakdown was
40 rapes,
8 attempted rapes,
31 possessing or making indecent photographs or pseudo photographs of child,
32 Sexual assault or attempted sexual assault,
20 causing or inciting a child under 16 to engage in sexual activity,
10 indecent assault or gross indecency
9 sexual activity with a child under 16
27 other

The 97 sex offender transgender prisons collected 177 sentences between them.

And that according to that FOI 197 prisoners are transgender.
This is why NO SUB GROUP OF MALE PEOPLE SHOULD BE EXEMPT FROM RISK ASSESSMENT. This group of male people still retain the same male pattern of committing sex and violent crime.

How can it be a made up issue when there is a trans identifying male sex offender in prison who has been convicted of doing literally that? (The victims were 10 and 12, in case that helps you feel more empathy for them.)

Luckily it doesnt matter what you think about made up assaults @Teddlesisagoodboy. It's now the law for women to have their own safe spaces.
You and the men will have to deal with it.

I feel like the toilet conversation takes up to much space in this debate. Here is what I want from this judgement and I think most people do too

• I’m not a cis woman. I’m just a woman.
• if you are gender critical your are protected from being sacked, cancelled ect
• if you are in a changing room, you are there with other biological women
• third spaces
• women’s sports remain a place for biological women competing against other biological women

to be honest, as long as someone is using a toilet in an appropriate way I wouldn’t even think to assess their biology! I have even helped men to go into female toilets to use the baby change

Are the people making the comments about raping mutilating and murdering 'terfs' 'MEN' in your opinion? They say they are transwomen. There's not just one example either, there's loads.

You also seem to be missing the point that risk of 'assault' is not the only reason that male people were excluded from female single sex spaces in the first place.

Assault from male people is not the only crime that harms female people, why do you keep focusing on that narrow aspect. There is many other ways that female people can be abused in a single sex space by a male person.

Plus there is the privacy aspect that female people need space away from male people.

Rather than telling women to 'Get a fucking life seriously', can I instead 'seriously' that you stop fucking listening and reading misinformation.

@KarmaKameelion I agree there is way too much emphasis on toilets.

It’s about more than toilets - It’s about for instance allowing lesbians to exclude men from lesbian clubs and equal pay policies. If you can explain how you differentiate between men who identify as women and other men, that would be helpful.

Actually both the clitoris and the penis develop from the same tissue. In some people the presence of testosterone causes this tissue to elongate. So really the difference is a question of size - regulated by hormones- which are also variable. This leads to genitalia in individuals with different hormonal balances that can be ambiguous. At what point does a clitoris become a micro penis for example?

Very, very much agree.

I don't think toilets are totally irrelevant. Probably for most people they are, but I have a friend who was brutally raped - and a man in the toilets would trigger her really badly, because it's a more vulnerable space.

However, I agree there are more consequential spaces like domestic violence shelters, prisons, even changing rooms.

At what point does the female urethra become part of the clitoris?

And at what point is the clitoris connected to testes in a female person?

Trans man would probably trigger her then

Golly you’re very arrogant aren’t you - you think for something to happen you must need to know the person perps ally? Are you God? I don’t know of any men who’ve been raped by other men, doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen?

Did you miss the posts from various people detailing all the trans sex offenders who are male (or transwomen if you will)?

Also you acknowledge men are a problem, yes? So how do they suddenly become NOT a problem when they declare they feel like a woman? If this is all it takes for men to stop being violent sex offending oppressors I reckon they should all do it, finally a magic solution!

Source?

What’s the difference between men and transwomen?

And o I don’t have a higher chance of being assaulted by a woman in a toilet than a transwoman because transwomen are men and part of the oppressive class of men