CIS

[Delivery]

Just read an article about the Supreme Court judgement today. It repeatedly refers to Cis women. I get so unbelievably annoyed by that term.

I am not a ‘Cis’ woman. I just hate the term. If you want to be a trans woman, fine. That’s what you are. Don’t make me the other side of your imaginary coin. Don’t make me call myself something I’m not. Don’t make me part of your ‘We’re all just at various points on the woman spectrum’ nonsense.

There are women. And there are trans women. Two entirely different things.

Yanbu.

You are a woman, no other description is necessary. It makes life much simpler. 😊

Out of interest what about people who are intersex at birth? What would you say to them ?

@Bogginsthe3rd one of the things I really struggle with in this discussion is why anyone thinks it’s reasonable at all that:

A man who feel like he is a woman should be called a ‘Woman’
A woman who actually is a woman should be called a ‘cis-woman’ so as to not offend the man who wants to be called a woman.

Why do women get forced into a sub-category of their own sex class, in order to facilitate a man feeling better about his identity? And why would any women support and go along with that?

Yanbu I find it offensive. There are women and there are men that's it. Some men present as how they perceive the stereotype of a woman to be and vice versa. Most of us just plod along perhaps conforming to gender stereotypes to some degree, perhaps not.

The terms transwoman/transman have contributed a lot to the confusion surrounding this issue, which I suspect was the point of them. If men who 'identify as women' were referred to as such by the media I'm sure this whole issue would have been resolved a lot sooner.

People with variations of sexual development are also male or female. Say to them with regard to what?

Yes I can understand that. My feeling is that a man who was born male but now identifies as behind a woman is called a trans man rather than just a man or cis man, no?

Well because biologically they may be neither male or female and not have male or female genitalia necessarily. So I wondered how you would classify them ?

You need to do some more research. People with disorders of sexual development are still either male or female. There is no third sex. Your sex is literally coded in every cell in your body, even if your genitals did not develop normally.

So if every cell is coded in your body to a non XX or non XY chromosomal pattern, what would you say ?

I wouldn’t classify them! A qualified doctor would have - as male or female. I don’t think there are any VSDs which are considered as ‘neither’, and certainly not as ‘both’.

Outside of public sector, I suspect my work place is more typical than either, and CIS and transgender have never once come up in training or policy.

Access to women-only spaces (and men-only spaces) is and always has been based on sex.

Intersex people don't stop women being women and I don't think it's fair to drag them into discussions that feature made up ideologies.

I just refuse to use the word cis if at all possible. Or any of the TRA lingo. I have lost track of how many gender identities there are. I'm too old and ND to pander to all this crap . I don't even bother with preferred pronouns. I just use they/them or their name. They can't be offended by that. Not my circus not my monkeys.

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/differences-in-sex-development/

This.

I also have some empathy for the small miniscule teeny weeny number of people with true dysphorias, but I don't feel I need to buy into the whole subculture around it . I don't want to oppress or discriminate against them but I am not turning myself inside out over what words or pronouns to use. I accept that if I had a child who identified as trans or NB I might feel differently. But I do think genuine dysphorias, as opposed to identity angst, (didn't we all struggle with lacking a sense of self at that age?it's a normal albeit painful part of growing up) are rare. I know 3 trans people, one I think may be truly dysphoric, the others I think are just non conforming .

YANBU to not want it used to describe you, just like IANBU to not mind it being used to describe me. We're all different 🙂

You would give them a hyperlink 😂?

My partner has cancer AND I hate the cis term. Go fucking figure.

You seem very confused/misinformed about DSDs and how male/female is classified, and this info would help to answer your questions if you are interested in learning.

Kindly, you do have a bit of reading to do!

That's really offensive and shows ignorance from you.

Intersex people are being dragged into the umbrella rainbow to suit an agenda to strengthen the "them and us " the more "us" they add to the alphabet, the stronger the voice.

Intersex people are either male or female, just like 100% of all humans that ever lived. Genitalia may not look uniform , and there may be other internal differences with their reproductive anatomy. But they are still male or female and tests can prove this. They're not a third sex category.

I think it's bloody offensive to drag intersex people into an idealogical agenda.

One is a medical diagnosable physical condition. The other is a snowballed movement based on a theory. (That harms women and children as it happens )

Of course you have no idea what kind of life the OP has led. Maybe she has had a serious illness and / or lost a loved one, maybe she’s a stay at home mother or an engineer or an athlete or a combination of all of these things.

Maybe she’s intelligent and able to care about many things all at once. I’m actually very sure of the last.

I hate when intersex is brought up - its less than 0.05 of the population and 0.01% are not given a gender (male/female) at birth

Compared to the 49.6% female population!

I don't accept being called a cis-woman - I am a woman - I have experienced, sexism, assault , gender inequality - it is part of my 'constructed reality'.

Respecting trans people should not mean redefining my experiences.

It is the use of 'woman' for men who wear nappies, or flash their bits, or commit sexual assault then claim they are women so they can get into a women prison - the tiny number of men using 'trans' as excuse for their shoddy behaviour.. = I honestly feel more men should be shouting about these men - but they don't. They harm life for trans people as well as for women.

Definitely not being unreasonable. I actually ticked other for gender on an application form because there was no female option, it was only ‘cis’ woman. As I object to that bullshit I refused to tick that option. I wrote female in the box as well. I think the ruling today is a positive step in addressing this utter bollocks! I also get annoyed by people adding pronouns to their email signature, it’s especially pointless when it’s women putting she/her. 🙄

No, you don't understand. You can't 'feel' like a woman, woman isn't a feeling, it's a neutral biological fact. There is no CIS woman, it's just woman. If you are born female and survive to adulthood you are a woman. It's not a philosophical question it has absolutely zero to do with what you think you are.