CIS

[Delivery]

Just read an article about the Supreme Court judgement today. It repeatedly refers to Cis women. I get so unbelievably annoyed by that term.

I am not a ‘Cis’ woman. I just hate the term. If you want to be a trans woman, fine. That’s what you are. Don’t make me the other side of your imaginary coin. Don’t make me call myself something I’m not. Don’t make me part of your ‘We’re all just at various points on the woman spectrum’ nonsense.

There are women. And there are trans women. Two entirely different things.

Let’s crunch the numbers, 7% of poll participants think “cis” is a reasonable term, 93% of poll participants think it isn’t. That’s quite stark.

But this is mumsnet. I could show you a poll of guardian readers or channel 4 news watchers. I don't think this poll is going to decide the outcome of anything.

Sorry Inks how can I help ?

No, only the Supreme Court can do that.

And it turns out, they're TERFs.

Bad luck.

I asked you if, given that you think we don’t have a right to dictate how a transperson labels themselves, do you believe that you (or anyone else) have the right to label me and other women as ‘cis’?

It's no one's luck here or there and indeed you have misrepresented the findings of the supreme court. I'm not sure what you are looking for here? Something akin to a devastating crushing victory of Arsenal over Real Madrid? There isn't an award up for grabs to declare you the champ of the comments, however frustrated you feel

I think you do have the right to label a trans person as you would like, as they have the right to call themselves as they feel.

Then you have absolutely no right to label me or anyone else as cis

Well that doesn't logically follow on from your argument. I just said you do have the right to label others as you see fit as someone may or may not describe you as a cis woman. You may of course reject this as is your right.

How an issue that affects such a teensy percentage of the population has been allowed to wield such power as to try and enact in law, decisions that will affect a gargantuanly larger percentage of the population and had questioners subjected to treatment akin to that from a fascist dictators playbook, has baffled me.

I agree...not sure who made that one up. Just had to explain the term to the husband.

I am not a cis woman...I'm just a woman born and bred

Oh give it a rest, Boggins!

I do agree that this is and should be a minority issue with laws that reflect this but also protect the minority with minimal impact to the majority.

So it wasn't just your sex at birth which made you a woman, it was how you were raised also. Got it 👊

Where did you get the raised bit from?

Logically they're right, though. These threads are full of women defending their right to call a trans woman a man, and threads are full of comments about men in skirts, blue haired non binary people, etc etc. You can say this about people; you'd be very pissed off if Mumsnet suddenly said "you can't say this about people". You have the right to label people as you see fit, and they can say "yep that's me" or "nah I don't acknowledge it".

People can also label you cis, and you can say "yep that's me" or "no, I don't acknowledge it". They can still do it, though.

There is a bigger issue at play here. The ‘destabilisation of some societal values through the destabilisation of established science’ Quote @Helleofabore.

Consideration of this is far more important than anything @Bogginsthe3rd has to say!

The, "and bred"

Bred in this context means breeding, ie a man and a woman making/breeding an offspring, ie nature.

It doesn't mean raising, as in nuture.

That's not what "born and bred" refers to. It's an easy mistake of argument to pick up on, but PP was essentially saying she was a woman because she was born female and raised that way. She probably didn't overtly mean it that way, perhaps subconsciously she did, but it was a good demonstration of expressing an argument that is actually more akin to those she is apparently disagreeing with.

But @Bogginsthe3rd, please …..

Just been googling it and it can mean both definitions, so we are both correct. Bred is past tense of breed, which covers incubation, ie pregnancy.

Old English bredan "bring young to birth, carry," also "cherish, keep warm," from West Germanic brodjan (cognates: Old High German bruoten, German brüten "to brood, hatch"), from brod- "fetus, hatchling," from PIE bhreue- "burn, heat" (see brood (n.)). Original notion of the word was incubation, warming to hatch. Sense of "grow up, be reared" *

Totally agree. Am hoping the ruling will put that term in the bin - but I suspect the TRAs will shout it even louder now as they know so many of us hate it.

We need to get some T-shirts printed with the slogan: 'Not cis. Just woman'.

I agree with you but the phrase "born and bred" really only does only refer to the one situation.

born and bred
idiom (also born and raised, born and brought up)

used to say that someone was born and grew up in a particular place, and usually that they are a typical example of someone who lives there:
He's a Parisian born and bred.
I was born and bred in the country and all I know is farming.
We were both born and raised here so the culture was in our blood.

........but PP was essentially saying she was a woman because she was born female and raised that way

That is NOT what she meant at all.