Would you judge someone for choosing to have a c section?

[ProudOtter]

I’m just curious as to why you would judge someone for choosing to have an elective c section?

For background I’ve decided I’d like to ask for a c section for baby number 2. Some people have made comments about me being insane, or that I’m missing out of giving birth “properly”

I am curious as to why some people have this view.

My first born was semi elective c section, was rushed into an induction due to minor fetal distress and escalated a bit so had to choice to attempt vaginal birth or go for a C-section and I chose the c section. Positive experience and no regrets.

Attempted VB being more expensive, I should clarify as that may not be clear. Can't edit.

yes I’d judge if there’s no medical indication or any relevant psychological issues

Why though? Why does it matter what another woman decides is best for her body?

This is what I’d love to understand too. People have such strong opinions on things that have absolutely nothing to do with them and won’t affect them in any way. I’d genuinely love to know why someone else doing something with their own body bothers them so much.

Why? I guess you judge those who use formula when they could have breast fed? Or those who have an abortion?

You’d prefer to take away a woman’s right to choose?

No different from the formula feeding v breast feeding or working mother v SAHM.

Some people feel they have the right to judge others. In reality they are basically rude.

No one is ever willing to give a reason why though, are they? Unless they hide behind the “but think of the NHS!” bullshit.

I guess it’s not easy to admit that you are just an arsehole with nothing better to do than poke your nose into other people’s business.

How other women choose (or don’t choose!) to give birth is absolutely nothing to do with me, so why would I judge?

And if anyone was stupid enough to judge me openly to my face, they would swiftly be told to get to fuck as well and I’d likely never speak to them again. It tells me everything about a person when they feel they can ram their opinions down your throat. You have to be rock solid confident in your own choices and experiences so that other people’s judgement rolls off you.

I think being terrified of childbirth is a very valid reason for a c-section…. how eloquent of you to call another women a wuss who chooses to give birth the way she feels mentally and physically comfortable with . Nobody is handing out a trophy for pushing the baby out . Why are women so fucking judgemental over other women’s birthing choices. There are real problems in the world at the moment , the war in Ukraine , genocide in Palestine . Elective sections are not one of them

Very odd especially other women being judgemental of someone getting a c section. It isn’t a competition and it’s not as if a c section is a walk in the park either! I’m booked in next week due to the baby being breech and haven’t had anyone say anything to me. I’m absolutely terrified as I’ve never had surgery in my life. Like it’s major surgery. Nothing about childbirth sounds easy. I can’t comment as this is my first baby.

Were you not offered an ECV?

I've just had a quick Google and the private hospitals require a larger deposit for planned c-sections as opposed to vaginal births.. 🤔

I was and decided to not opt for it

I know it’s terrifying walking into surgery. I’ve done it 3 times and it’s daunting. But your baby will be out very quickly and then you won’t give a shit about anything else but looking at them!

Where are you getting these facts from @UrinalCake

I can see one article from ITV news discussing it, based on one study, that (at the time of writing) may be submitted to a medical journal.

All the other literature seems to suggest that vaginal birth is the cheaper option, even considering the litigation cost (though the disparity is much less significant when considering this).

Giving birth is a very different to having liposuction and breast augmentation…
I’m having an elective c section due to the baby being breech and I opted out of an ECV because it sounded uncomfortable for both myself and baby and it may not have worked.
A baby has to be born one way or another so I don’t think liposuction is really a comparison

My cousin had a vaginal birth but with a lot of intervention and use of forceps / venteuse (can't recall which). The first thing she said to her husband after their eyes met over the head of their firstborn child was "I'm sorry I couldn't do it properly". I was SO bloody angry when I heard that. Her first weeks as a mum were really affected by a feeling of failure due to the narrative she had taken on about birth being some moral action. All the language about doing it "well" or "struggling" is poisonous.

I need to have a look because I definitely remember reading about it. When you compare costs you have to remember a large chunk of women attempting VB end up having emergency cesareans so those need to be included in cost as well.
When you look at a large group of women attempting vaginal birth there’s going to be a lot of cost associated with emergency c-sections, emergency instrumental deliveries in theatre plus compensation costs etc. When you add all of this up I’m not surprised if it works out the same amount as a group of women having elective sections.

The problem with not having caesarean automatically available is that it is then down to medical staff to make the decision for women about what is best for them, and there is a strong tendency for medical staff to push for natural birth regardless of what is best for the mother.

I decided on a caesarean based on my own research of case studies of women with the same disability as me. I had to push very hard to have it under general anaesthetic because, despite many episodes of proof over many many years of local anaesthetics not working on me, and me providing case studies of women with my condition enduring caesareans with anaesthetic, the doctors still were convinced they knew best. They did then go and do some actual reading on the subject and did a U-turn very quickly, but their gut reaction was to very forcefully tell me I was wrong. When I then went into labour so had to have the caesarean early, when I arrived at hospital I had midwives trying to “encourage” me to try for a natural birth since I was in labour already. They didn’t know that natural labour could have caused permanent physical damage to me and/or my baby, they just automatically assumed that it would be better for me to give birth naturally and therefore tried to convince me of it.

Medical professionals who work in obstetrics know obstetrics. They do not know every possible physical condition or mental condition that might be a reason to require a caesarean. All they know is “natural birth is best” without really having much insight into the many complexities of the many conditions that could make natural birth problematic and/or harmful for women and their babies. Women need to be able to make these decisions for themselves because they know themselves best.

I totally agree with @MugsyBalonz

However the baby gets out is birth.

The moralising over how much pain a women should suffer to be considered to be birthing 'properly' is outdated and disgraceful.

If birth has to be painful for it to be real, then all over surgical procedures should be held to the same standard. No more anaesthetic for cataracts, appendectomies, definitely none for vasectomies. Those that need it are just wusses.

Which tells us bugger all. The most complex cases are obviously more likely to need the specialist teams most likely to be available in the NHS. The population using private facilities are by definition unrepresentative, and afaik they also produce much less in the way of negligence claims

@heroinechic this is a recent study.

f1000research.com/posters/8-518

There is research saying ELCS is more expensive too, but it's older. NICE estimated ELCS as about £700 dearer in the early 2010s. This is important given that the birthing population are trending older and fatter, so even stuff from a decade ago is looking at information that's outdated. There's quite a time lag in research. The £700 assessment by NICE included data from the 90s. This is especially significant when it comes to litigation costs because we're a lot better at saving babies lives when birth goes wrong than we used to be and, being blunt, dead babies cost the NHS less than the ones that live longer and require substantial care.

Worth pointing out this is rather more than posters asserting that ELCS is much more expensive and therefore ought not to be an option have provided since I joined the thread. I understand why a person might take the view that it's not clear, but we've had broad, sweepingly ignorant comments from posters who evidently haven't even tried to look into it. And it never works the other way.

Absolutely would never judge a woman for a c-section be it elective or medically indicated. It’s your birth and your body. A c-section is a safe way to give birth. Advocate for yourself to have a c-section if that’s what you want - don’t be guilted in to doing otherwise or tell yourself that your choice to deliver via cesarian means another woman can’t have an emergency cesarian if she needs it.

Quite right. This is what I meant upthread when I said we must reframe the issue so it's about judging people who judge. Let's spell out how rapey it is to think pregnant women ought to be forced into doing something they don't want with their vaginas. Call an Aunt Lydia an Aunt Lydia.

@Rainingalldayonmyhead

Do you agree with IVF being offered by the NHS?

How is it way harder? Surely all births have their difficulties. My natural births were knackering and incredibly painful. All 3 of them. Luckily I enjoy labour because it means I can get most of my body back!