Person with MH problems should not be better off no working

[YourTidyScroller]

Just that really. Someone working a minimum wage job full-time should not be worse off than someone not working due to mental health problems and claiming benefits.
I know several people in this situation claiming UC for housing benefit, council tax, ESA, disability top up and PIP. They all have no work record and few qualifications so would probably only get a minimum wage job. But their income would reduce. So they have a financial incentive not to recover.

OK, let's do a little thought experiment here.

OP, imagine that prices are exactly the same as they are now. You are working a NMW job, but getting £5k in the bank. Your person with mental ill health is getting £6k in benefits.

You are both very comfortable.

Now do you still feel the same way about the situation?

There's a purpose behind these constant threads (and those on some other subjects, such as grooming gangs).

The aim is to work on the emotions of those broadly in agreement - to make them angrier and angrier - and to exhaust everyone else.

You don't engage in a proper argument, you don't admit that things are always imperfect, that issues might be complex, you just repeat the same lines over and over again.

well sherlock so do use workers and its a piss take that some workers need universal credit top ups.

i thought society got rid of slave labour years ago and basiclly the pittance workers get paid vs the value of the labour they produce etc workers should be paid better or society needs a new system to replace capitalism

Some employers probably couldn’t pay more without severely impacting their ability to trade. But plenty of companies could absolutely pay more. A company like Tesco for example with billions of pounds of profit could (and should) absolutely pay more.

This. I'm actually physically disabled (but ill health has brought MH issues too). At 35 I was declared by the nhs pension service (and an independent doctor) that they felt I would never be expected to work again. Dismissed and given an ill health pension (the pension is deducted from my benefits entitlement). I would be on about £46000 now (without any promotions). I have a minimal pension now in my 40s but couldn't add to it. The worry of living on benefits, money being taken away is immense. The government think I'm going to be able to go back to work (not sure how). The assessment process is not fit for purpose. Each assessment has reduced my points (even though I've deteriorated). The worry everytime it comes around to reassessment is immense.
When my dc reach 18 they will have to leave home because I'll nolonger beable to afford a home the size I need to accommodate them. I won't be able to support them through university. I would not choose this way of life.
Working brings choice that living on benefits doesn't.

Yet, you’re clearly not their friend. Where is your empathy, OP?

I have explained this a number of times. They get benefits because their mental health is so bad. If it improves so they are able to work, they are unlikely to be eligible for PIP. Single people on national minimum wage do not get much on benefits.

I agree. Go and walk a mile in their shoes, living on what they get and tell us all how well you get on!

In fact, come and do what I do for 6 months in my caring role and tell me afterwards that you're still really envious of people with disabilities.

Incidentally, I don't claim UC. I claim Carers Allowance though and care for 4 family members with additional needs for £86/week. I then earn £150/week from what little part time work I can fit in around that. Then my kids get DLA.

I don't stop from 6am-11pm, 7 days a week. No holidays, no break...EVER! Actually, I do get a break. I get one hour a week for my hobby. Come and be jealous of this scrounger!

I challenge you to come and try my life for 6 months and NOT change your attitude!

OP forgot to mention free goats.

@Mumble12 I think OP is saying they shouldn’t get more than someone working full time. Not that they should be on bare minimum income.

Yet again, completely arse about face.

The whole problem with this "better off on Benefits" narrative is that people continually deny the actual problem, which is that employers in the UK are subsidised in order to permit them to pay a pittance in salaries.

It's not the fault of people claiming benefits, the minimum amount the government has decided they need for a minimum level of living standard, that salaries and wages in the UK are utterly abysmal.

I am sorry to hear of anyone struggling. I have worked since I was 16 and will get a tiny employee pension and state pension. Not everyone working is on high wages or getting a good pension.

Have you any.idea how severe mental illness can be?

I can't imagine how difficult your life must be🤗

But why have you quoted? @gamerchick

I work 30 hours a week now. I have diagnosed mental health issues. I feel lucky to now be well enough I can work and love my job. NOW working overall improves my MH.

However in the not to distant past I couldn’t work and my MH was part of that reason. If I had been forced to carry on working or face poverty I would have ended up with a breakdown at best, not being here at worse. Thankfully I was able to take the few years needed to get myself and my situation into a better position. I was then very lucky to have an opportunity with a very good employer to build myself back into the workforce. I am in a better place now than I have been for years.

the benefits system was part of what helped me be able to heal (or at least apply a comfy enough dressing I can cope for now!)

Yes and I disagree. Someone who can’t work through no fault of their own, shouldn’t be expected to live on a basic wage. We know NMW isn’t enough to live on. Which is why those on NMW are often subsidised by UC. So why are we wanting to force disabled people to ‘survive’ on that, even though we know being disabled incurs more living costs than not being disabled?

the only people who should bring home less than a comfortable wage are those who could
work, but deliberately choose not to.

Yeah, I have received my award, I don't qualify for any other benefits as before I became disabled I prioritised saving money over expensive holidays and whatever else.

So I'll probably have to buy my own goat as well. 🐐

Haven't RTWT.

Had no idea I could be better off on benefits. I have multiple MH and physical health problems, two degrees, two diplomas, and work a DIFFICULT minimum-wage job, with extremely challenging children. I'm fiercely determined and fiercely independent, and will work until I literally can't get out of bed. Then I'll work from my bed.

I appreciate that I'm in a more fortunate position than some. But I could definitely claim disability benefits. I don't want to, because they need to go to people who need them more than I do.

And all the ire is directed at the people who get that big chunk of UC paid to them, and none to the BTL landlords who make a tidy living out of it.

Because my DB owns his home, his PIP and ESA are quite a bit less than he would get working full-time on NMW. It's the housing costs that bump up the benefit entitlement to above NMW.

Unfortunately a lot of minimum wage jobs are zero hours contracts which means they don’t take home £1700 per month.If we are talking about serious mental illness ie.psychosis,schizophrenia etc which requires hospitalisation,medication and ongoing mental health care then many of those people will need to be supported by benefits long term.If we are talking about anxiety,adhd and depression these are not mental illnesses they are conditions which can be managed by meds and counselling.In most cases working is beneficial and can often help their condition.In one of my local charity shops(a big well known charity)they take on volunteers who have varying learning disabilities and Down’s syndrome,the difference it makes to their confidence and self esteem is amazing and they feel valued,maybe it’s time people with certain non disabling conditions should do the same.

Yes, because MH issues are EASILY solved aren’t they, surely they just need to get a grip don’t they?!

Any chance of you answering the question I asked about 20 minutes ago?

But if workers are expected to survive on it, why not people with mental health problems?

You aren’t justifying why state benefits should be higher than the minimum wage. And - how exactly that is supposed to work in terms of people ever feeling able to get back into work.

And thats fine but not.everyone who has a mental health condition will be eligible for disabillity benefits
And not everybody who has a mental health condtion will be able to work
Paticularly those with severe and enduring mental illness.

That's great that you think that. You must be some kind of socio-economic genius.
I hope you or your family never suffer from life threatening mental illness.