Person with MH problems should not be better off no working

[YourTidyScroller]

Just that really. Someone working a minimum wage job full-time should not be worse off than someone not working due to mental health problems and claiming benefits.
I know several people in this situation claiming UC for housing benefit, council tax, ESA, disability top up and PIP. They all have no work record and few qualifications so would probably only get a minimum wage job. But their income would reduce. So they have a financial incentive not to recover.

Why would they be unwilling to catch the frauds when they need to save money and catching fraud would save money? The DWP are extremely motivated not to give people PIP

But they say the fraud rate for UC is 10.9%, so why would they 'own up' to fraud for one benefit and not another...

One thing that pisses me of is that you’re allowed to earn up to £350 a month before UC start deductions. So why is carers allowance removed pound for pound from universal credit? I’m not carers allowance but I understand the struggle.

Also, everyone should be better off working imo, but that doesn’t mean I believe those on benefits should be left penniless. The system needs to be fairer

Fairer ? How would you make it fairer you mean a lower standard of living.

@Coffeeishotno of course not. I’m not saying people with disabilities should have any money taken away, I think working people should be paid more 🤷🏻‍♀️

That is because they’re unemployed through choice…. Not because they’re mentally disabled?

Not always through choice. Some people will have been fired or made redundant. Or have moved to a new area and are looking for work. Or were previously unwell and now fit for work.

I think you misunderstood me.
You are not the defensiveness I was highlighting. I was agreeing with you and don't understand why it must never be acknowledged that (some) people absolutely know just what to say or do for the diagnosis they seek 🤷‍♀️

the cost of a disability or a basic standard of living is always going to be more than minimum wage
so if you are saying that the disabled who can’t work should get less than someone working minimum wage then yes you are being unreasonable

It's not that rare; in my family two are claiming for mental health, two for physical disabilities and two are carers.

Why do people fall for this bad faith goady shit time and time again?

There's nothing new.

Didn't realise mumsnet was for just randomly spouting opinions.

Wow threads like this used to obviously be started by Labour bashers, now it could be Labour lovers, reform lovers or Tory lovers. There is no difference

You clearly read it wrong… I was being very sarcastic. People are losing their lives over mental health issues. Taking money from them won’t help.. I’m on about genuine cases here. It’s just another battle for those with genuinely bad mental health.

They are also probably disabled just for the ££££. What a life.

I know. It's a sad state of affairs.

Haven't read to the end of the thread yet but isn't this the problem the government are currently in the process of solving by raising the minimum wage so it's decent. I don't think they need to cut benefits too as most people get far less than what this new mv would bring in and those who get more have met the bar for very high disability related costs.

OP I know physically disabled people who work.
i know people with mental health issues who work.

I know it’s a crazy concept (said with sarcasm) but not everyone with a mental health problem is the same as the next, just like with physical disability.

just because some people with mental health problems can work it doesn’t mean they all can. It’s not a competition all based on you. You are lucky that medication can control your psychosis. What about those medication doesn’t it work for? You aren’t the barometer.

as a disabled person yourself i’m struggling to understand how this puzzles you.

and how little do you think they should get? Minimum wage is woefully low. Yet you think disabled people with no potential to earn more should get even less?

Many people with MH problems have done and are capable of doing non minimum wage jobs so they are worse off on benefits- a lot worse.

That's exactly why PIP should be abolished and replaced by a different type of benefit.

Why and what do you suggest?

What would you suggest? How would you categories disabled and Iill people?

PIP is not a benefit. It is an entitlement. If you meet the relevant criteria you are (theoretically) entitled to it. There is not a single benefit to being disabled. And yes, it should be replaced by a system that actually ensures that people entitled to it get it, and that the level awarded better reflects the costs of disability (which by every empirical study suggests that awards would be higher!) and enables the UK to meet the standards required by the UN. There is not a single disabled person who would trust the government - any government - to do that. Not even the UN trust them to treat people with disabilities as they ought.

Well, I've just seen a FOI request and these changes are going to affect:

23,000 cancer patients
214,000 arthritis patients
38,000 people with MS
11,000 people with cerebral palsy
83,000 people with respiratory or cardio vascular disease
97,000 people with musculoskeletal diseases

Yet, the powers that be will have you all thinking that this is about getting lazy people with mental health problems back in to work. For those that believe this, you're being manipulated by the powers that be and the press that are it's puppets.

OP, I have some sympathy for what you're trying to say but I do worry that you're thinking is going to lead you to support policies that will reduce the incomes of people on less than 50% of the national minimum wage because a small number of disabled people earn slightly more than the NMW. My income is about £10,000 a year and I can't work. I have no hope of earning more. If they take this away from me I'm totally fucked. Please don't support these policies because a tiny number of people are not living in dire poverty.