Person with MH problems should not be better off no working

[YourTidyScroller]

Just that really. Someone working a minimum wage job full-time should not be worse off than someone not working due to mental health problems and claiming benefits.
I know several people in this situation claiming UC for housing benefit, council tax, ESA, disability top up and PIP. They all have no work record and few qualifications so would probably only get a minimum wage job. But their income would reduce. So they have a financial incentive not to recover.

Given that the changes haven't yet been approved, on what is a FOI based? Can you please provide a link? I am opposed to the changes, but posting unverified claims doesn't help the argument - I am badly disabled, I do not subscribe to the notion that there are thousands of fraudulent claims, but even I would acknowledge that some few people exaggerate or falsify their condition. To be clear, I am acquainted with many, many people with disabilities, and I know of one who has exaggerated their condition. I know of many more who did not get PIP when they ought to have.

I believe the FOI asked the DWP how many people who currently get PIP don't have at least 4 points under one criteria, as that is one of the changes. Sorry I haven't got a reference.

That is how I read it too. Would be good to see what the wording of the FOI request was too.
It could also be applying to the numbers of people not on PIP at all, seeing as PIP is going to be used as a gateway to the enhanced rate of UC and no job search requirement.

It would still be useful to see the FOI though. As I said, it assumes that the changes are approved, and that the criteria remain as they are - neither of which are a certainty. As I said, I am opposed to the changes, but in my view this biggest problem here is that nobody is properly consulting on the full scope of proposals. After all - those answers relate to conditions and PIP is not about diagnosis but about impacts as we are always at pains to explain to people. So telling us that 214,000 arthritis patients do not score four points in any category (and I chose that one because my main disability is arthritis) doesn't mean anything specific if the reality is that those people really do have limited impacts. I don't want to see anybody worse off, and I think benefit levels are too low anyway - but the most cogent arguments to defend people with disabilities are those that stand up to scrutiny. Many of the opposing arguments are based on sand ( e.g. "there's loads of fraud", "the DWP says there's close to 0%", "ah that's because they aren't looking") and we need to be cleverer than that.

It's not my personal FOI request. It was from someone on a disability group posted it.

However, anyone can put in a FOI request to the DWP.

I believe this person asked:
1 - How many people currently receive PIP and they asked for figures based on a list of medical conditions/disabilities that were provided as part of the the claimant's application.
2 - How many of those individuals in each of the categories DIDN'T score 4 or more in any of the categories for care needs (not mobility)
3 - For information on those of working age ONLY (not pensioners).

I can't recall who asked for this, but here's a link to the FOI response regarding the number of recipients who don't have 4 points in any daily living activity:

response to PIP FOI request www.disabilityrightsuk.org/news/90-pip-standard-daily-living-component-recipients-would-fail-new-green-paper-test?srsltid=AfmBOoqBJzt0ubbCnDxmP1vq61CXaUGyY2_Z0rUGDuUYL1kcHFxf0h74

For those on the standard rate, 87% would lose their PIP under the proposals, and on enhanced rate, 13%.

This would include my bipolar DB, mentioned upthread and a large proportion of my clients, who all have MH problems as their primary health issue.