Person with MH problems should not be better off no working

[YourTidyScroller]

Just that really. Someone working a minimum wage job full-time should not be worse off than someone not working due to mental health problems and claiming benefits.
I know several people in this situation claiming UC for housing benefit, council tax, ESA, disability top up and PIP. They all have no work record and few qualifications so would probably only get a minimum wage job. But their income would reduce. So they have a financial incentive not to recover.

@Youcancheck Nope. I know people with mental health problems who work.
These friends are not pretending to have mental health problems, their issues are real. I simply think the principle of receiving more money than someone working full time is wrong.

So you think that’s someone who has no control over their ability to earn a living, should be living on a bare minimum income? Why?

and i think its wrong companies paying so little that the workers then need a universial credit top up

And some people talk about "mental health issues" like they are a mild cold or something.

It is because having a disability costs more. Are you regularly reviewing these people’s incomings and outgoings? You have no idea what extra expenses they have.

Also - you are really playing right into the hands of those responsible for cuts to have a disabled person judging others with health issues / disabilities is exactly what they want rather than everyone collaborating and fighting this kind of thing.

You Want your friends to be in poverty because they have an illness?

You think someone who works full time who may themselves have a mental health problem and find it a struggle, should have less income than someone who does not work? I don't.

But you also appreciate that whilst some people with physical and mental disabilities can work others can’t, it’s not a hard concept. PIP or UC isn’t an out of work benefit anyway.

If your disability became worse and you couldn’t work would you be happy with less than enough money to live on?

I sort of agree but wouldn’t single out mental health, I think anybody who is working full time should have more money coming in each month than someone who isn’t working- regardless of what the reason is for them not working.

Singling out mental health doesn’t particularly make sense, especially in the new world of online work & wfh, someone in a wheelchair with good mental health would find working easier than someone with depression so intense they can’t even get out of bed.

then thats the fault of the companies that want basically slave labour.
where as the govt acutally pays a better wage

if capitalism is so great then it should pay its workers better

@Youcancheck The three people I know have no extra expenses of any note. They do not employ carers.

If you are able to work, then you should. If you can’t, then you should be given an income with which you can live an enjoyable and fulfilling life.

What do you think the answer might be to this problem?

Of course nobody should struggle it isn't poverty bingo, and if several of these people you know who are on low incomes with illnesses they are well within their rights to apply for working Disability benefits.

Mental health condtions csn rsnge from vey mild to profound just like physical disabillities
Its like ssying you know somone with a limp who can work so why can a quadraplegic

People claiming benefits like ESA will have their National Insurance stamps towards their state pension. They can also pay into a SIPP for their retirement, but I’m not sure how common it is for someone on benefits to pay into a SIPP?

For the record, I claim ESA due to my disabilities. I know that my National Insurance stamps are paid and I pay into my SIPP each month because I don’t know when I’ll be well enough to work again. I have a old workplace pension too.

I’ll be back in work someday, and I’ll be able to merge my old workplace pension with whichever pension plan I’ll be contributing to at that time.

I live in a town that has a supported living house for people with mental health problems.

the people who live there often come out with their carers to events - a couple of them sing in my choir, lots come to the regular church coffee morning on a Tuesday.

if their benefits were less than full time work at national minimum wage the supported living house wouldn’t be able to run as it relies on this to pay for carers, warden, etc.

it’s very useful and is commonly used for people coming out of long stays in mental hospitals.

what would you rather happen? That people come out of long stays in mental hospitals to immediately living on their own with no support?

So I am taking this as the sort of situation where a person says they won't work because they are in a situation where that will reduce their income. That's something I've heard from a few people before, and I had no reason to disbelieve them, I think there are cases where a person's situation can lead to that kind of scenario.

And no, I don't think it's a good thing. In fact when I've encountered it often the person would like to work but is worried about making ends meet which is not right IMO.

For some reason people think of this in terms of the person who isn't working, but if you think in terms of the person who wants to work, obviously it's not right.

I don't think whether it's MH or some other reason makes much differernce theoretically. Though in the case of the person the OP is talking about it might be, hard to say.

I get what you mean actually.
I was thinking of my friend who uses a wheelchair and needs help getting in and out of bed, to get dressed, etc. She also can not go out without someone as she is blind so can not operate a mobility scooter. She has to use her PIP to employ carers to have any type of social life at all. So her extra expenses are real.

So you think people who are working should be receiving so little they would be better off not to work?

PIP isn't affected by being employed & neither is the disability premium on housing benefit. Someone working for minimum wage will be financially better off working but that is likely to come at a cost to their mental & physical health.

For the record I have a severe mental illness - schizoaffective disorder (a more severe form of bipolar)

I work in a minimum wage job & get PIP & a small amount of housing benefit.

I'm financially better off in work & it's a good thing for me now that I have some control over my disability but there is no way I could have worked at my most unstable. The motivation to manage the disability & get as stable as possible was not affected by whether I would be better off financially.

That's really offensive to suggest that people like me aren't motivated as we want to be as disabled as possible for the cash.

Try living with an SMI like schizoaffective disorder or Schizophrenia. It's not all fun & games I can assure you.

So if people incur expenses that meet your approval, they can have extra money. Got it 🥴

your best bet is to apply for a job as a pip assessor

What benefits are they getting, at what rate and what disabilities exactly do they have? I'm assuming this is one person's rate you're talking about.

They are not entitled. You can struggle mentally and/or physically with a disability but not be entitled to PIP. I am not saying they should be. But generally if your mental health is good enough to consistently attend work and hold down a job, you are unlikely to get PIP, even though life might be a major struggle.

Friends you say? Do they know what you think of them?