Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Person with MH problems should not be better off no working

581 replies

YourTidyScroller · 13/04/2025 16:54

Just that really. Someone working a minimum wage job full-time should not be worse off than someone not working due to mental health problems and claiming benefits.
I know several people in this situation claiming UC for housing benefit, council tax, ESA, disability top up and PIP. They all have no work record and few qualifications so would probably only get a minimum wage job. But their income would reduce. So they have a financial incentive not to recover.

OP posts:
YourTidyScroller · 13/04/2025 22:19

uncomfortablydumb60 · 13/04/2025 22:17

Forgot to add..I’ll gladly swap my monthly income of PIP and ESA on condition you take my moderate Cerebral Palsy and bipolar 1 disorder???

I will swap my job with you if you take my psychosis managed by medication and fucked up lungs that mean I have COPD?

OP posts:
Flytrap01 · 13/04/2025 22:21

What Companies Can Do Better

Introduction: The Corporate Delusion

Let’s get one thing straight: you don’t have to wait for a government policy shift, a populist uprising, or a Daily Mail headline to realise something is deeply broken. The people are angry. Not because they hate welfare—but because they no longer trust work to be the route out of poverty.

And where did this breakdown begin? Not just in Westminster.
But in your boardrooms.

I. Stop Acting Like Minimum Wage Is a Virtue

Let me be frank: paying the legal minimum is not moral rectitude. It’s economic cowardice. You squeeze wages to cut costs, then complain when taxpayers pick up the slack in the form of benefit top-ups. That’s not capitalism. That’s corporate parasitism.

What Companies Must Do:

  • Implement living wage structures not because you’re legally bound, but because you understand that resentment is poison—and your frontline workers are drinking it daily.
  • Audit internal pay hierarchies: If your CEO earns 250x more than your lowest-paid worker, you’d better be delivering profits that justify Roman tributes. Otherwise, it’s not a business. It’s a Versailles cosplay.

II. Rebuild the Social Ladder—One Rung at a Time
You claim to value "upward mobility." But in most firms, the only thing moving up are executive bonuses.

What Companies Must Do:

  • Create genuine progression pathways from entry-level to management. Apprenticeships that don't dead-end. Training budgets that don’t vanish in the third quarter.
  • Kill the degree inflation myth: Start promoting from within based on performance, not paper. Talent doesn’t always wear a mortarboard.

III. Be Honest About Mental Health—And Honest About Work
You’ve all plastered your walls with slogans like “It’s okay to not be okay.” But when mental health issues begin to impact productivity, suddenly it’s all policy memos and quiet exits.

What Companies Must Do:

  • Invest in structured return-to-work programs. Mental health support isn’t about permanent absence—it’s about functional recovery.
  • Redesign roles to reduce burnout: Flexible hours, hybrid models, role rotation. Make it easier for people to stay in the workforce, even when they’re struggling.

IV. Become Stakeholders in Society, Not Just Shareholders in Profit
The average citizen no longer sees a difference between multinational corporations and absentee landlords. You extract value. You don't plant roots.
What Companies Must Do:

  • Reinvest locally: Stop outsourcing everything from janitorial staff to IT to save 3% on your quarterly report. Invest in your communities, and they’ll invest in you.
  • Publicly back policy reform: If you know the welfare system is unsustainable, lobby for responsible change—not just lower taxes. Get your hands dirty in the policy kitchen, or don’t whine about what’s served.

V. Rethink the Culture of Reward
Let me ask you something: when did your bonuses become divorced from reality? When did “shareholder value” become a euphemism for “executive enrichment”?

What Companies Must Do:

  • Tie executive pay to social impact metrics: retention of low-income staff, wage uplift across the bottom quartile, measurable community investment.
  • Kill the myth of meritocracy at the top: If your senior hires are all from the same five universities and golf clubs, you're not hiring for merit—you're just replicating privilege.

Conclusion :

The future of business is not simply about cutting costs, boosting margins, or flattering shareholders with another empty ESG slide. It’s about restoring a broken contract—between labour and leadership, between vulnerability and value, between mental health and economic participation.

If mental health challenges have become a major fault line in the benefits debate, it’s because our systems—corporate and public alike—have failed to provide a dignified route back into the world of work. We’ve built institutions that medicate suffering but do not rehabilitate purpose. That is not compassion. That is containment.

Happilyobtuse · 13/04/2025 22:23

TheBuffetInspector · 13/04/2025 22:04

I'm sure your children love their carers.

What is bcoz?

Stop being ignorant! My children don’t need carers as all the care they need is provided for them by both their parents who work hard daily and are higher rate tax payers! You can make fun of an abbreviation but it doesn’t make you smarter! 🤣 I have a masters degree and I am totally confident in my abilities. I speak more than 4 languages and english is a second language. If you still want to be a judgemental pain in the arse, then go ahead!

ChickenBananas · 13/04/2025 22:24

On what planet is anyone recieving £600 a month as council tax reduction?! Make that make sense???

ChickenBananas · 13/04/2025 22:26

Council tax doesn't work like that. Say you would pay £100 per month, you might instead pay £60. They don't give you hundreds of pounds 🙄

WeylandYutani · 13/04/2025 22:26

ChickenBananas · 13/04/2025 22:24

On what planet is anyone recieving £600 a month as council tax reduction?! Make that make sense???

Is bull. No one is paying that much on CT to start with.

YourTidyScroller · 13/04/2025 22:55

YourTidyScroller · 13/04/2025 22:06

LCWRA £416 a month.
Housing allowance £548 a month
UC single person £368 a month
Council tax allowance varies but about £600 a month
Lower rate PIP without mobility, some will get more £312
Total = £2154

Sorry got council tax allowance totally wrong. Brain fart.
About £100 a month. If you have a serious mental illness you can also apply for a discounted council tax from your local authority, so this could be more.
So total =£1654

That is on lower rate PIP and with no mobility PIP. So some people will get more.

OP posts:
CJsGoldfish · 13/04/2025 22:59

Hastentoadd · 13/04/2025 21:09

I would think with all the knowledge on mental health out there now and info so widely and readily available that it wouldn’t be an extremely difficult thing to do unfortunately

I don't understand the failure to acknowledge this.
If it doesn't apply to you, there is no need for the defensiveness. An adult has the ability to know what is required to be diagnosed with certain conditions and ensure they can tick each box. There are many reasons why someone needs/wants the label they seek and denying it happens doesn't mean it doesn't happen 🤷‍♀️

There are many people who use 'mental health' to avoid certain situations. Pretty sure we all know it and acknowledging it doesn't take anything away from those who are genuinely too unwell to manage those same situations.

WeylandYutani · 13/04/2025 23:03

YourTidyScroller · 13/04/2025 22:55

Sorry got council tax allowance totally wrong. Brain fart.
About £100 a month. If you have a serious mental illness you can also apply for a discounted council tax from your local authority, so this could be more.
So total =£1654

That is on lower rate PIP and with no mobility PIP. So some people will get more.

And some people get no PIP
Is why it is pointles comparing people on benefits with people who are on none.
And people on NMW will most likely be on them as a top up anyway.

YourTidyScroller · 13/04/2025 23:04

WeylandYutani · 13/04/2025 23:03

And some people get no PIP
Is why it is pointles comparing people on benefits with people who are on none.
And people on NMW will most likely be on them as a top up anyway.

No unless they have children they are unlikely to get UC.

OP posts:
WeylandYutani · 13/04/2025 23:06

YourTidyScroller · 13/04/2025 23:04

No unless they have children they are unlikely to get UC.

So you are also throwing kids into the mix. It gets more complicated.

Basically, a single disabled person who does not work WILL NOT be getting more in benefits than a single person on NMW.

Hastentoadd · 13/04/2025 23:10

CJsGoldfish · 13/04/2025 22:59

I don't understand the failure to acknowledge this.
If it doesn't apply to you, there is no need for the defensiveness. An adult has the ability to know what is required to be diagnosed with certain conditions and ensure they can tick each box. There are many reasons why someone needs/wants the label they seek and denying it happens doesn't mean it doesn't happen 🤷‍♀️

There are many people who use 'mental health' to avoid certain situations. Pretty sure we all know it and acknowledging it doesn't take anything away from those who are genuinely too unwell to manage those same situations.

I’m not being defensive at all, I’m just stating well known facts
Am I not allowed as a taxpayer to get a little bit annoyed that there are certain people ( not all) out there screwing the system while other people go to work and pay taxes that partially fund their lifestyle

Maitri108 · 13/04/2025 23:11

YourTidyScroller · 13/04/2025 22:55

Sorry got council tax allowance totally wrong. Brain fart.
About £100 a month. If you have a serious mental illness you can also apply for a discounted council tax from your local authority, so this could be more.
So total =£1654

That is on lower rate PIP and with no mobility PIP. So some people will get more.

I think you got housing wrong as well as there's a cap depending on where you live.

Maitri108 · 13/04/2025 23:14

And now you're saying she has a severe mental impairment.

Flytrap01 · 13/04/2025 23:15

Hastentoadd · 13/04/2025 23:10

I’m not being defensive at all, I’m just stating well known facts
Am I not allowed as a taxpayer to get a little bit annoyed that there are certain people ( not all) out there screwing the system while other people go to work and pay taxes that partially fund their lifestyle

and yet people think its ok for companies to pay pittance or large corporations can also screw the system via tax avoidance etc

ToWhitToWhoo · 13/04/2025 23:17

There are obviously some people who fake illness or disability. And the number may even be increasing as a result of all the publicity given to the matter. Scammers may start thinking 'Oh, this is something I could try'. On the whole, harshness to vulnerable people is likely to harm the Oliver Twists of the world, while the Artful Dodgers are more likely to be able to find ways to work the system.

However, it's generally accepted by those who investigate such things that disability-fakers are rare, and that most benefit fraud involves failure to declare income either from an undeclared job or from a partner. Yet people seem far more obsessed with the former than with the latter.

In any case, the existence of fraudsters is no reason to penalize the genuinely ill or disabled.

Hastentoadd · 13/04/2025 23:19

Flytrap01 · 13/04/2025 23:15

and yet people think its ok for companies to pay pittance or large corporations can also screw the system via tax avoidance etc

Where are you getting that from? I don’t know anyone who thinks that’s ok
Are you trying to deflect for some reason?

Mumble12 · 13/04/2025 23:19

YourTidyScroller · 13/04/2025 22:06

LCWRA £416 a month.
Housing allowance £548 a month
UC single person £368 a month
Council tax allowance varies but about £600 a month
Lower rate PIP without mobility, some will get more £312
Total = £2154

Sorry £600 per month for council tax 😂

YourTidyScroller · 13/04/2025 23:20

Maitri108 · 13/04/2025 23:11

I think you got housing wrong as well as there's a cap depending on where you live.

That is the cap for a 1 bedroom flat housing allowance where I live

OP posts:
Flytrap01 · 13/04/2025 23:23

Hastentoadd · 13/04/2025 23:19

Where are you getting that from? I don’t know anyone who thinks that’s ok
Are you trying to deflect for some reason?

yes because more ££ can be gained from focusing on those other areas why focus on the small fish when you can go for the big fish first if its about making more ££ for the country as a whole

Maitri108 · 13/04/2025 23:24

YourTidyScroller · 13/04/2025 23:20

That is the cap for a 1 bedroom flat housing allowance where I live

I thought that the housing cap outside London was £283.71.

YourTidyScroller · 13/04/2025 23:26

A month? No. You would not get a single room for that.

OP posts:
YourTidyScroller · 13/04/2025 23:27

If you get PIP the housing cap does not apply in the same way.

OP posts:
Hastentoadd · 13/04/2025 23:28

Flytrap01 · 13/04/2025 23:23

yes because more ££ can be gained from focusing on those other areas why focus on the small fish when you can go for the big fish first if its about making more ££ for the country as a whole

Both need to be focused on

Flytrap01 · 13/04/2025 23:30

Hastentoadd · 13/04/2025 23:28

Both need to be focused on

true