Page 35 | Gender and pronouns

Wyki · 2025-04-10T17:55:13+00:00

Before I start, the daily mail and other papers can all fuck off I’m prepared to be flamed for this as I’ve been here long enough to know how it all works but…. aibu to tell my son he can’t have his partner over any more It’s a new relationship. My son is 21 and the new partner is 18 He barely works and is consequently on a low salary however he does help me with childcare (that I pay a minimal amount for) the new partner is a very petite pink haired “girl” that does ballet and dance but uses the pronoun he/him my 11 year old daughter is finding it confusing and asked if her brother is gay. I replied with “no because the partner is very feminine and is a girl despite the pronouns” (I couldn’t care less if he was gay, sexuality isn’t important) So am I being unreasonable in saying the partner doesn’t come over as it’s just too weird and I don’t want that example being set for my daughter

flaffydaffy · 14/04/2025 08:36

BundleBoogie · 14/04/2025 08:24

Are you saying that we have to wait for more bad things to happen before we can say all men must be excluded from women’s spaces?

If you don’t think that scenario could happen (it may have already happened) then you, thankfully, haven’t come across any of the huge porn genre that consists of men filming unconsenting women in the toilet. I take it you also haven’t heard reports from staff at large retailers about what these special men get up to in the women’s changing rooms all over the women’s clothes?

Giving any man access to a female space is not going to end well for women. I’m confused why you’re arguing against this specific scenario.

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Yes I no longer buy clothes in shops just in case they have spunk on them. Can't be too careful these days.

Helleofabore · 14/04/2025 08:38

Couleur · 14/04/2025 08:29

And, looking back through the quote history, it’s quite clear that Hellofabore thinks I’m the same person because of the tenuous links she mentions.

I actually don’t think that at all. I don’t believe you were the poster I was referring to as I know who that poster was and is. And it isn’t you.

Helleofabore · 14/04/2025 08:41

Couleur · 14/04/2025 08:31

So you do remember or you don’t? You were attempting to imply something or you weren’t?

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I wasn’t attempting to imply you were the poster at all. As I said, I know the name of that other poster and they are still very active on MN.

Seems like you are projecting though.

BundleBoogie · 14/04/2025 08:59

flaffydaffy · 14/04/2025 08:36

Yes I no longer buy clothes in shops just in case they have spunk on them. Can't be too careful these days.

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That sounds very limiting. You could just avoid the retailers that choose to let men in the women’s changing rooms?

Helleofabore · 14/04/2025 09:03

BundleBoogie · 14/04/2025 08:59

That sounds very limiting. You could just avoid the retailers that choose to let men in the women’s changing rooms?

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That is great advice!!!

Well worth taking Flaffy!

Couleur · 14/04/2025 09:30

Helleofabore · 14/04/2025 08:41

I wasn’t attempting to imply you were the poster at all. As I said, I know the name of that other poster and they are still very active on MN.

Seems like you are projecting though.

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Ah. So this airy comment “Oh, and that poster that shamed women discussing their menstrual reality, joined a thread where the discussion was about toilets
usage too. And women were discussing their need for privacy from male people in the public area of the female toilets,” is just me projecting? Come on. Why even bother to make the comment in the first place?

Helleofabore · 14/04/2025 09:35

No. I wasn't referring to that at all.

I explained why I made the comment. Because that poster learned that day that even though they found the discussion not to their liking, they learned that while they had thought women were over exaggerating their menstrual issues because that poster had not experienced it and because they didn't talk about these issues, that women were not exaggerating or making things up.

And I also added, that in reading that thread and joining the discussion I also learned that I was not isolated in my experiences as I had felt for decades.

DoddlesMcDoddle · 14/04/2025 09:44

flaffydaffy · 14/04/2025 07:23

@MissScarletInTheBallroom no, I was not commenting about miscarriages. I was commenting about the breast milk and baby puke stuff.
You're now saying men with a lactation fetish might be watching as a woman washes breast milk out of her top in the toilets and that this is the fault of trans activists. Yes the thread has jumped the shark that's the most ridiculous thing I ever heard.

Who said anything about a 'lactation fetish', that is a very strange shark for you to jump. Not wanting to be in a state of partial undress in front of a male is completely different from a "lactation fetish".

The fact your mind jumped to "lactation fetish" says your mind really jumped the shark, and is batshit.

DoddlesMcDoddle · 14/04/2025 09:47

flaffydaffy · 14/04/2025 07:48

Okay but does anyone here think that the scenario of a man with a lactation fetish going into a women's toilet and happening upon a woman rinsing breast milk out of her top and then getting off on it has ever actually happened, once, ever? Or that it's a scenario that anyone should take seriously as a possibility and worry about while out in public with their baby? The miscarriage argument might be a valid one! Stuck to stuff like that rather than coming up with outlandish scenarios that make you sound paranoid.

The only one who mentioned lactation fetish is you.

Ask yourself why that is.

flaffydaffy · 14/04/2025 10:20

@DoddlesMcDoddle quote from PP upthread "There are men who have fetishes around lactation and menstruation. Thanks to trans activists, those men now have access to women's public toilets up and down the country. They don't even need to say the magic words "I am a woman" anymore.
How do you think those men might behave if they were in a women's public toilet and they encountered me washing blood off my hands during a miscarriage or ** rinsing breast milk out of her top?"

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 14/04/2025 10:23

@flaffydaffy Are you saying that you don't think men with these fetishes exist?

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 14/04/2025 10:29

Helleofabore · 14/04/2025 07:51

Male people with fetishes do now have access to female toilets thanks to campaigning by activists who prioritise gender over sex even when sex matters. Perhaps that was a fact that you had missed.

It is also why these discussions are happening. Because, despite your wonderful personal hygiene advice, some female people choose to do more than just wear baby vomit and breast milk leaks all day when they are out. Particularly if they have long public transport journeys ahead of them. Or breast milk leak stains and wet patches when they are at work. Or coffee / wine / food spillage stains on their clothes. Or.... that skeevy topic.... blood stains. And they want to have privacy away from male people.

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Exactly this.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 14/04/2025 10:31

flaffydaffy · 14/04/2025 07:48

Okay but does anyone here think that the scenario of a man with a lactation fetish going into a women's toilet and happening upon a woman rinsing breast milk out of her top and then getting off on it has ever actually happened, once, ever? Or that it's a scenario that anyone should take seriously as a possibility and worry about while out in public with their baby? The miscarriage argument might be a valid one! Stuck to stuff like that rather than coming up with outlandish scenarios that make you sound paranoid.

It's quite clear that the scenario of a man with a lactation fetish using women's toilets has happened and indeed does happen on a daily basis.

And it's clear that women rinsing breast milk out of their clothes in women's toilets is something that also happens.

The fact that the former happens makes women less free to do the latter.

Surely this isn't difficult to understand.

flaffydaffy · 14/04/2025 10:54

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 14/04/2025 10:31

It's quite clear that the scenario of a man with a lactation fetish using women's toilets has happened and indeed does happen on a daily basis.

And it's clear that women rinsing breast milk out of their clothes in women's toilets is something that also happens.

The fact that the former happens makes women less free to do the latter.

Surely this isn't difficult to understand.

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Lactation fetish exists yeah, the chance of this specific set of events ever happening approaches 0 though. For one thing how would he know it was milk you were washing out unless he watched it happen and then followed you in. You're very paranoid if you're worried about this. And then saying the reason this scenario could possibly happen is that said man may say that he's a woman OR that people would be too scared to say anything to him just in case he might say that he's a woman. Jumped. Shark.

The more likely scenario is that the man with the lactation fetish actually sees you breastfeeding. Should I be worried about that and just not breastfeed in public??

TheKeatingFive · 14/04/2025 10:58

flaffydaffy · 14/04/2025 10:54

Lactation fetish exists yeah, the chance of this specific set of events ever happening approaches 0 though. For one thing how would he know it was milk you were washing out unless he watched it happen and then followed you in. You're very paranoid if you're worried about this. And then saying the reason this scenario could possibly happen is that said man may say that he's a woman OR that people would be too scared to say anything to him just in case he might say that he's a woman. Jumped. Shark.

The more likely scenario is that the man with the lactation fetish actually sees you breastfeeding. Should I be worried about that and just not breastfeed in public??

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I agree that this is an unlikely sequence of events to come together.

But for me, it's a broader point. There are a range of male fetishes that would make women's bathrooms attractive to men for fetish-related reasons. Why would we put up with that?

Couleur · 14/04/2025 11:07

Helleofabore · 14/04/2025 09:35

No. I wasn't referring to that at all.

I explained why I made the comment. Because that poster learned that day that even though they found the discussion not to their liking, they learned that while they had thought women were over exaggerating their menstrual issues because that poster had not experienced it and because they didn't talk about these issues, that women were not exaggerating or making things up.

And I also added, that in reading that thread and joining the discussion I also learned that I was not isolated in my experiences as I had felt for decades.

Thanks for the explanation, but that’s laughable.

BundleBoogie · 14/04/2025 11:11

flaffydaffy · 14/04/2025 10:54

Lactation fetish exists yeah, the chance of this specific set of events ever happening approaches 0 though. For one thing how would he know it was milk you were washing out unless he watched it happen and then followed you in. You're very paranoid if you're worried about this. And then saying the reason this scenario could possibly happen is that said man may say that he's a woman OR that people would be too scared to say anything to him just in case he might say that he's a woman. Jumped. Shark.

The more likely scenario is that the man with the lactation fetish actually sees you breastfeeding. Should I be worried about that and just not breastfeed in public??

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I’m not sure why you’ve zoomed in on this specific scenario to argue against it. You are clearly aware that given the opportunity, some men will behave badly.

While thankfully reasonably rare, this is one of a bazillion scenarios that are knowingly and deliberately being enabled by those in charge of such things rather than steps being taken to prevent them.

In a world where we have frighteningly high rates of rape, unconsenting women being filmed for porn, voyeurism, and men generally behaving disgustingly in women’s spaces - I’d rather more steps were taken to prevent this stuff rather than enabling it.

Do you agree?

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 14/04/2025 11:13

flaffydaffy · 14/04/2025 10:54

Lactation fetish exists yeah, the chance of this specific set of events ever happening approaches 0 though. For one thing how would he know it was milk you were washing out unless he watched it happen and then followed you in. You're very paranoid if you're worried about this. And then saying the reason this scenario could possibly happen is that said man may say that he's a woman OR that people would be too scared to say anything to him just in case he might say that he's a woman. Jumped. Shark.

The more likely scenario is that the man with the lactation fetish actually sees you breastfeeding. Should I be worried about that and just not breastfeed in public??

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"In public" is not a single sex space. As it happens I think women should feel free to breastfeed anywhere she damn well likes. But if she wants to breastfeed in a single sex space, even if that means in a toilet, she should also have that option available to her.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 14/04/2025 11:16

TheKeatingFive · 14/04/2025 10:58

I agree that this is an unlikely sequence of events to come together.

But for me, it's a broader point. There are a range of male fetishes that would make women's bathrooms attractive to men for fetish-related reasons. Why would we put up with that?

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This.

Helleofabore · 14/04/2025 12:26

flaffydaffy · 14/04/2025 10:54

Lactation fetish exists yeah, the chance of this specific set of events ever happening approaches 0 though. For one thing how would he know it was milk you were washing out unless he watched it happen and then followed you in. You're very paranoid if you're worried about this. And then saying the reason this scenario could possibly happen is that said man may say that he's a woman OR that people would be too scared to say anything to him just in case he might say that he's a woman. Jumped. Shark.

The more likely scenario is that the man with the lactation fetish actually sees you breastfeeding. Should I be worried about that and just not breastfeed in public??

Show quote history

I asked this question to you before flaffy, I will ask it again:

“Why don't you think that female people of any age should have or want privacy from male people in a female single sex space?”

lifeturnsonadime · 14/04/2025 12:48

I just don't get why any woman would think that the right of the male to be 'validated' by being in a single sex space should be more important than the comfort and privacy of women.

I get that some women may be comfortable and consent but they shouldn't be able to consent on behalf of all women.

Sometimes products fail. Breast pads and sanitary pads, some times if there isn't a specific baby change with a toilet that fits a pram we have to leave the door unlocked and put the pram in the door and take our chances (I've done this).

i've also had to help a muslim girl whose period product failed and she'd leaked from behind onto her dress.

This things are not every day occurrences but they do happen. It's a massive failure of imagination/ logical thinking to think otherwise.

So much for the sisterhood, eh?

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 14/04/2025 12:52

@flaffydaffy I might have missed it, but did you ever respond to the question about whether a woman who is having a miscarriage should be entitled to have access to single sex (not gender) public toilets?

Couleur · 14/04/2025 13:02

@lifeturnsonadime

i've also had to help a muslim girl whose period product failed and she'd leaked from behind onto her dress.

Why did you feel you had to mention this girl was Muslim? What difference does that make?

Helleofabore · 14/04/2025 13:02

lifeturnsonadime · 14/04/2025 12:48

I just don't get why any woman would think that the right of the male to be 'validated' by being in a single sex space should be more important than the comfort and privacy of women.

I get that some women may be comfortable and consent but they shouldn't be able to consent on behalf of all women.

Sometimes products fail. Breast pads and sanitary pads, some times if there isn't a specific baby change with a toilet that fits a pram we have to leave the door unlocked and put the pram in the door and take our chances (I've done this).

i've also had to help a muslim girl whose period product failed and she'd leaked from behind onto her dress.

This things are not every day occurrences but they do happen. It's a massive failure of imagination/ logical thinking to think otherwise.

So much for the sisterhood, eh?

I have found the dismissal to be almost startling life. And yes, I have had to jam pram/pushchairs laden with groceries into toilet doorways. Too. And even my mum's wheelchair because there was no other option available for her.

But to some people, it never occurs to them that some others have complicated lives. I also suspect those people have support at home that other's simply don't have (so no just leaving a baby at home with someone to pop out to the shops / appointments) and they may have cars and live in a place designed around car usage, such as Australia or the US. However, it shouldn't matter. Because if female people are saying, 'this is my need based on my experience', other people should be accepting that this is a need that a single sex space is designed for and usually fulfils.

From the really offensive and highly exaggerated reframing, to the 'I have never experienced this', to the 'I have never seen this', to the accusations of being weird for doing a pretty standard practice action and more. And the development of a hierarchy of those needs and how we should or should not be discussing them.

There is always, and I am talking generally, some sort of disconnect between the complex reality of other people's lives and people who seem to need to shame others for wanting privacy in a place they expect to be single sex.

But it always comes down to some people needing to dismiss female people's needs for single sex spaces to remain single sex.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 14/04/2025 13:19

Couleur · 14/04/2025 13:02

@lifeturnsonadime

i've also had to help a muslim girl whose period product failed and she'd leaked from behind onto her dress.

Why did you feel you had to mention this girl was Muslim? What difference does that make?

I would have thought that was obvious.