Gender and pronouns

[Wyki]

Before I start, the daily mail and other papers can all fuck off

I’m prepared to be flamed for this as I’ve been here long enough to know how it all works but….

aibu to tell my son he can’t have his partner over any more

It’s a new relationship. My son is 21 and the new partner is 18

He barely works and is consequently on a low salary however he does help me with childcare (that I pay a minimal amount for)

the new partner is a very petite pink haired “girl” that does ballet and dance but uses the pronoun he/him

my 11 year old daughter is finding it confusing and asked if her brother is gay. I replied with “no because the partner is very feminine and is a girl despite the pronouns” (I couldn’t care less if he was gay, sexuality isn’t important)

So am I being unreasonable in saying the partner doesn’t come over as it’s just too weird and I don’t want that example being set for my daughter

Oh god yes, I remember that. Who was that again?

But I was told just now that women can always tell somebody’s sex on sight.

And yet..

(I also doubt trans women in women’s toilet is new.)

His initials are IW and he has an odd obsession with JKR. And claims to have a cervix (through surgery as opposed to the sort of cervix that David Lammy thinks men can grow through use of hormones).

Yes. I actually thought it wasn't him initially, but you're right.

So what? We should make it easier for men to access women's spaces? Is that it? And this is progress?

We’re not always looking directly at the person that enters the room. Sometimes it’s just an outline which could be deceptive especially if the person is attempting not to appear female.

What is the point you are trying to make here?

Even babies can tell the difference between men and women: pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8627186/

It depends in the circles you move in. You can be in spaces with a disproportionate amount of trans people. Years ago at my adult ballet school there were two trans students but that was (I assume) because one of the co-owners was a trans woman. So everybody there would know at least three trans people which is a disproportionate number compared to society at large but makes sense in the context.

Also people who move in certain LGBT circles, especially the ballroom scene will know a disproportionate number of trans people.

It was a direct response to a quote. I cannot help if you chose to butt in the middle without reading the quote history.

Sigh.

What’s with all of the “so what you saying is”….and them adding all this random stuff thr person has not said.

It’s weird.

But you appear to be supportive of men identifying as women accessing women's spaces.

Is that not correct?

You’re doing it again.

Doing what? Is my understanding of your position right or not?

It’s not new - trans women have always used female toilets. The ones who can pass. Those who don’t pass generally wouldn’t dare then and generally wouldn’t dare now. This is because while single sex spaces have never been formally policed, gender non conforming people have always faced harrassemwnt in single sex spaces when they don’t conform to presentational assumptions/ stereotypes. Nothing has changed except heightened knowledge about trans people and a concomitant increase in raging transphobia.

It is your choice.
DD has two friends who use he/him, male names but still look like girls, dress grungy, make up, long hair.
I use their preferred name.
DS aged 10 asked me if they were trans.

Just because nobody wants to challenge them doesn't mean they pass.

Presumably you’re aware of the concept of social contagion…
As an example, my eldest child now early 20s, somehow managed to know no less than six people with DID. All teenagers during lockdown. All spent a significant amount of time on Tik Tok. All somehow by some weird twist of fate, came down with an incredibly rare mental disorder with which they had multiple “alters” and “split personalities”. These teenagers (and thousands of others) dedicated hours to watching this content, posting videos of themselves “splitting” online, created full and vibrant lives for these “alters” and spent time on a website dedicated to logging all their alters details and interacting with others with alleged DID.
Without exception, every one of these same teens, and many more in her peer group, subsequently came out as trans or non binary (a good cluster of them after a visit from a LGBT youth organisation to the school, at one point there were 12 in the one year group who were trans).
Of the handful I knew personally and well ( I had watched many of them grow up) they were ADAMANT about their new identity. Insisted that they had “always known”, tried out new names, used opposite sex pronouns. I overheard many a tearful phone call about how they’d been “misgendered” and all the hate and bigotry they perceived they were experiencing.

I would say the majority of them, or at least the ones I knew well, were neurodiverse.
This is social contagion. And vulnerable young people trying to find an explanation for their feelings of being displaced and uncomfortable in their skin. Trans is a brightly packaged ready made community of friends ready to welcome them and give them an identity and an explanation. And it is desperately harmful to them.

According to folk on MN it is obvious who was born a woman and who wasn't.

Complete nonsense.

There are many transwomen who pass as natural born women, and the staunchest of GC devotees wouldn't have a scooby do.

The transwomen I know are stunning women.

Regards the anti-trans backlash (which would explain a recent poll that was just posted on here), the high profile cases of men gaming the system (the Scottish rapist bloke Isla Bryson the worst culprit), plus the issue of natural born males in womens sports, those two things have coincided which has led to a downturn in attitudes towards the trans community. No doubt once those issues are addressed things will return to where they were.

The point is that People do often challenge the ones that don’t pass, and they always have.

Reminds me of an Instagram reel where the hairdresser introduces herself with the pronouns They/Her and asks the customer to share pronouns if comfortable, which turn out to be All/ Any…

Meanwhile primary aged children where I live still use the word ‘gay’ as an insult.

I’m very worried about how out of tune people are nowadays and how many are going in opposite directions. Social constructs built over centuries, passed through generations, bonding societies, now going in the bin. To what expense.

Pass = deceive.

Why should any man who wants to deceive women and girls into thinking he’s something he’s not be welcomed into female spaces? Whether he succeeds or not, deceit is the aim.

The transwomen I know are stunning women.

Transwomen are men. You know that. Why do you persist in lying about it?

They may well be stunning, but they are not women.

I’ve read the thread. You haven’t answered my question. What is your point?

“The transwomen I know are stunning women.”

If they’re stunning women why do you call them transwomen?

Regardless of how well anyone 'passes', everyone knows what sex they are. People need to start doing the decent thing and use the services meant for their sex.