Gender and pronouns

[Wyki]

Before I start, the daily mail and other papers can all fuck off

I’m prepared to be flamed for this as I’ve been here long enough to know how it all works but….

aibu to tell my son he can’t have his partner over any more

It’s a new relationship. My son is 21 and the new partner is 18

He barely works and is consequently on a low salary however he does help me with childcare (that I pay a minimal amount for)

the new partner is a very petite pink haired “girl” that does ballet and dance but uses the pronoun he/him

my 11 year old daughter is finding it confusing and asked if her brother is gay. I replied with “no because the partner is very feminine and is a girl despite the pronouns” (I couldn’t care less if he was gay, sexuality isn’t important)

So am I being unreasonable in saying the partner doesn’t come over as it’s just too weird and I don’t want that example being set for my daughter

I doubt you are as good as you think you are. In fact your confidence is evidence of this.

👍🏻

Men don't have to do anything these days to access women's toilets. Beyond saying they 'identify' as a woman.

nah, harrassment of butch women in female. Bathrooms has been going on for decades. Don’t blame trans women

There’s an entire porn genre dedicated to exactly that. I think it was Skirt Go Spinny who compiled a video montage of some of the worst clips posted online of trans women going into women’s bathrooms specifically to masturbate and record it so it could be posted online. It’s freely available on the internet to view. I won’t link it here because it’s obviously a horrific watch.

Edited to add. I want you to stop and think for a moment about a young girl being sat in a cubicle next to a man doing that. And let the horror of that sink in.

Which is exactly how it’s always been

No it isn't. It used to be that predatory men got thrown out. I have a distinct memory of seeing that happen in my childhood. Or they didn't dare enter in the first place.

Regardless, 'we have always been infiltrating your spaces' isn't exactly the trans feel good argument you might think it is.

Yep. There were always a couple of local creeps that hung around the public toilets where I lived growing up and it was widely known amongst us kids that we weren’t to use the bathrooms if they were there. It was commonly accepted that any adult men who tried to access women’s toilets were not good or safe men.

God what a load of shit.

I think I'd just crack on with your daughter calling this woman a "she" tbh.

I'd want to ban her from the house just because I wouldnt want my daughter exposed to such silliness but I wouldn't want to push my son away, lord knows he'll need support at some point.

30 odd years ago teenage girls could chase Eddie Izzard out of the female toilets and he could whine as much as he liked, no one supported him being where he shouldn’t have been, no no one thought he was even 0.0000001% female.

These days the girls have to shut up and shove over or be branded transphobic bigots for excluding “her”.

Do you think that’s progress?

I don’t think people should be harrassing gender non conforming people in toilets. This has always happened however sadly,
There has never been any way to stop predatory men entering female toilets, nothing has changed there either, but this has never been , and still is not , a significant means through which predatory men seek access to women.
So overall- has there been progress? No. Recently there’s been an increasing visibility of trans people in society and claims for recognition, healthcare and rights etc; this has led to a horrific transphobic backlash which we are currently (hopefully) reaching peak, and then perhaps we might start making some progress towards making the world better for women and gender nonconforming people of all kinds.

Eddie Izzard? Was that necessary?

There has never been any way to stop predatory men entering female toilets

There was a social contract, which the TRAs dismantled. There was support for women who objected to men in their spaces and encouragement of good men (and women) who helped maintain boundaries - which the TRAs dismantled.

Progress indeed 🙄

Eddie Izzard? Was that necessary?

What? Are we supposed to support Izzard's infiltration of women's spaces or something?

Eddie Izzard? Was that necessary?

No I don't think it was. He goes in the men's presumably when he's in 'boy mode' so he has no right to think that putting on a skirt should mean he can use the women's .

There has not been a way to prevent predatory men from entering, no. But by applying the blanket rule that NO MEN however they identify are allowed to enter, it greatly reduces the risk to women and girls. It creates a mechanism by which any man is notable in his presence there and women have recourse to have him removed. It is absolutely without question that mixed sex toilets and changing spaces are significantly more of a risk to women and girls.
When you change those parameters to “aah but he’s allowed in because he thinks he’s a woman”… how can any woman deduce at a glance how sincerely that belief is held or whether he’s a predatory man. The only way to manage it is to make it so that men are simply not allowed to be there. So that when they are, they stand out and women aren’t left in a position of being unable to challenge it. Your sole argument here seems to be “oh some men rape women in toilets so we should let them all in anyway…”

This wasn’t “people” “harassing” a gender non-conforming “person”.

This was two GIRLS maintaining their BOUNDARY against a MAN in a FEMALE toilet.

Your reframing of that incident, which did happen, is so anti-female as to be unbelievable.

But thank you for demonstrating so clearly why using the correct words matters. Cheers!

Tandora knows all this, they just don't care. It's only women, right?

I know quite a few transwomen (moreso than transmen) and they have every right to live their lives as women.

Can you explain how these men ‘live their lives as women’? How is it possible to live life as a woman in a way that a man can also achieve? Are there other categories that we can cross into? Can I ‘live my life’ as another species as well as another sex?

@Tandoraand I’ve yet to see one coherent argument as to why women are meant to accept these men in our spaces, rather than men being told to accept that some men like to present as women and they should make them welcome in men’s spaces…

Only women. And only girls. Sure eroding our boundaries and overriding our comfort and need for safety in order to appease men is what’s expected of us eh.

Yes, it’s interesting. The fairly recent phenomenon of men deciding they have the right to use female only spaces has made women a bit more jumpy about those they share spaces with. Who’d a thunk it? 🤷‍♀️

Absolutely. The astonishing thing is that we ever thought any different, huh?

It’s always odd to me when people say they know “a few” or “loads of” trans people. Allegedly only 1% of the population. But somehow these people always know so many people who have the curious misfortune of having been “born in the wrong body”. One would have imagined if such a condition did actually exist in science it would be remarkably rare…

Have you interviewed each one with a lie detector?

Why do you think this? Have you missed the vast numbers of men who will refuse to use unisex spaces in favour of women’s spaces? One famous man even walked to the other end of the airport past the unisex toilet to get to the ladies and boasted about it on social media to ‘own’ the women.

Of course there's been ways to stop predatory men entering female toilets, showers, dormitories, changing rooms etc for years. Not just the social contract but laws. Voyeurism, indecent exposure to name but 2 laws on the statute book alongside the willingness of institutions to recognise the red flags involved when men want access to undressing women and girls

It was only when men claiming to be women demanded this access that this started to unravel. When the useful idiots in positions of power decided that these powerful groups needed listening to instead of all those concerned about VAWG and safeguarding children.

Trans people have the same rights as the rest of society. What they're now demanding are the rights that belong to other protected groups - the rights women and girls have to privacy and safety from men when vulnerable.

Few people support this - as the stats posted upthread demonstrate.