Gender and pronouns

[Wyki]

Before I start, the daily mail and other papers can all fuck off

I’m prepared to be flamed for this as I’ve been here long enough to know how it all works but….

aibu to tell my son he can’t have his partner over any more

It’s a new relationship. My son is 21 and the new partner is 18

He barely works and is consequently on a low salary however he does help me with childcare (that I pay a minimal amount for)

the new partner is a very petite pink haired “girl” that does ballet and dance but uses the pronoun he/him

my 11 year old daughter is finding it confusing and asked if her brother is gay. I replied with “no because the partner is very feminine and is a girl despite the pronouns” (I couldn’t care less if he was gay, sexuality isn’t important)

So am I being unreasonable in saying the partner doesn’t come over as it’s just too weird and I don’t want that example being set for my daughter

The UK is the place where gender bending and androgyny became mainstream in the 1970s, so it's been ahead of the curve when it comes to acceptance beyond the conventional two genders

The ' gender bending' and ' androgyny' of the 1970s were a fantastic example of result of the feminism movement and of the feminism underlying the GC position. As these were examples of people rejecting sex-based stereotypes whilst embracing their sex.

The trans movement is regressive as it involves rejecting your sex if you reject sex based stereotypes. As a result, it reinforces the idea of sex-based stereotypes.

Women should be free to be whatever type of woman they want. Men should be free to be whatever type of man they want. You don't need to reject your sex to do that.

@ChessorBuckaroo your post actually just shows your lack of understanding of feminism and of GC feminism, if you think 1970s fashions are examples of the trans movement and not ours.

Being a women is not a "right", or a privilege bestowed upon well behaved men who ask really nicely.
It is a biological fact, and it cannot be changed. It's not transphobic to point that out, which is all anyone Gender Critical on MN is doing.
And it is indicative of the UK as a whole - when surveyed people don't want men in women's sports or spaces.
And the average MN user has no issue with gender bending or freedom of expression - men are totally free to wear dresses, as long as they know that don't magically become women when they do so.

Transwomen do not affect your personal womanhood

Er, if you believe that TWAW then why the need to use 'Trans'? Do explain.

It’s up you who is in your house.

But your son’t partner prefers “he/him” but also identifies as a girl? I can see why your daughter is confused.

Oh definitely this too. It will impact her relationship with her son.

No.
We have been kind. We have been pushed to speaking the truth.

Time for you TRA allies to be kind to women.

It is our turn to be on the receiving end of kindness.

I was surprised at first but been here for a while and realised it’s pretty Terfy (as can be seen in a number of opinions on other things such as the negativity towards SAHM.)

So I just bear that in mind. I just imagine a lot of JK Rowling / Julie Burchill types.

And what does “living as a woman” entail, outside of wearing “women’s clothes”? What is the lived experience of being a female and how do these men achieve it?

Many of us remember the gender bending, androgynous popstars of the 70s and 80s.

We celebrate a time when young people rejected stereotypes of masculinity and femininity and felt increasingly able to express themselves any way that they want to.

But musicians and singers who played around with their image, didn't reject their sex.
They knew whether they were men or women.

Unlike young people today who don't fit into the gender stereotypes associated with their sex, nobody told them that they were born in the wrong body.

Incidentally, Marilyn, one of the fabulous gender bending 80s pop stars, is on Twitter and has no time for gender ideology bullshit.

FGS, the right to women to have sex-based rights is utterly unrelated to being SAHM.

I'm totally in favour of sex-based rights and have no issue with SAHM at all.

Does this mean that nobody should protest against the genocide in Gaza?

There is no genocide in Gaza.

I will not more let that claim go unchallenged that the claim TWAW.

JK Rowling types? You mean the type of women who have escaped domestic abuse, become one of the most successful & richest women in the world and then used that money to support a service for female victims of rape??

yes god what bloody awful types eh

Probably not best to derail the thread but after looking at some before and after photos of various cities in Gaza and listening to an interview with an Israeli academic who studies genocide, I'm more convinced than ever that that's exactly what's happening.

But we'll have to either agree to disagree or discuss it elsewhere.

Precisely this. Most of us have long known and accepted that there is no “right way” to be a woman other than to have been born female. We also know that changing one’s appearance has absolutely nothing to do with our biological sex and that a man wearing a dress does not mean he’s a woman.

I personally wouldn't get involved. At this age, they haven't really settled in their life and who they are. The low income is actually his issue too but since he's living at home, you could definitely ask him to contribute towards bills, Clean up after himself, keep noise down etc. and to be told when she is coming over if necessary. It is your house. Id imagine it would start an argument if you address it directly with him, when really his focus needs to be on getting a decent job/college. Which is something you could be asking him casually about/encouraging. My opinion

Also, not only the 70s and 80s. Myself, and many of my peers were raised with alt/emo/goth guys who loved makeup and glitter. Brian Molko was a particular favourite among my friends. Ditto Nicky Wire from the Manic Street Preachers

It is your right too if you want him to see 'him' somewhere else besides at home. You could tell him that it's a big change from your generation (and mine!) and if they could meet up somewhere else it would be good, for now at least. You could say it kindly

By 'JK Rowling types' you presumably mean women who've suffered domestic violence and thus deeply understand the need for women to have access to single sex spaces away from men?

Thats what you mean, right?

I’d welcome his GF but be clear that your boundaries are reality based and you won’t play along with her luxury beliefs. Ask her if she thinks girls can opt out of oppression in Afghanistan.

Ok.

See ^^.

The UK is the place where gender bending and androgyny became mainstream in the 1970s, so it's been ahead of the curve when it comes to acceptance beyond the conventional two genders. MN, terf island HQ, is an outlier to this

It is absolutely extraordinary that anyone can say this with a straight face in support of TRA ideology.

This is basically the whole point of being gender critical. The sex you are should have absolutely no bearing on how you dress or present yourself - which is something we actually understood 40 years ago.

But wearing dresses or makeup doesn't make you a woman or give you rights to women's spaces and services. And it's totally regressive to suggest it does.

“See” what? What’s your gotcha here?

So by not derailing you mean you get to put your case but then decide the conversation ends there? Sorry, being as you decided, not only to plonk your extremely contentious claim into a completely unrelated thread, and then to make your case for your claim, I will make mine too.

Even based on the 50,000 figure of deaths that Hamas has put out, those are all deaths SINCE the war rather than just those who died IN the war, so a quarter of those are people who would have died anyway. A former British army officer has investigated the figures (as an independent) and has found evidence of manipulation such as adults being recorded as children. The figures make no distinction between between combatants and civilians but 70% of those in the death figures are men of fighting age in Hamas. Which rather suggests Israel has done a good job of targeting Hamas in very challenging circumstances.

Israel has been forewarning Gazans of attacks, a courtesy Hamas has not extended to Israelis, whom is has not stopped attacking since October 7th both in terrorist attacks and rockets. The success of this forewarning can be seen in the low death count for an urban warfare and was seen by all our eyes by the safe corridor of thousands of Gazans returning during the ceasefire. They survived as they were forewarned by the country you are accusing of genocide and were provided with a humanitarian corridor to return by the country you are accusing of genocide. Make it make sense. Which is why your 'evidence' of damage to buildings is not evidence of genocide when Israel warned people to leave so they would not be killed when buildings were bombed.

If you want to blame someone for all the deaths in Gaza since the war, blame Hamas. All of those who died as a result of the conflict Hamas deliberately started on October 7th would be alive if Hamas had not done that. Hamas have publicly gloried in the death of their civilians, saying they need their blood to fortify their fighters. We have to assume they really mean this as they have not sheltered their citizens in the vast tunnel network they have spent decades creating, reserving that for themselves. Nor have they returned the hostages and laid down arms, which they could have done at any time to end the war. If you want to blame someone, blame the terrorist dictatorship that is openly dedicated to the total destruction of Israel, launched a deliberately brutal terror and rape assault on civilians, babies, chlldren, men and women, and at October 7th 2024 had fired 14,000 rockets into Israel since October 7th 2023.

Blame the terrorist dictatorship. Not the democratic country defending itself from the terrorist dictatorship. I feel I should no more have to say that, that I should have to say TWANW.

I'm sorry, what?

Did you mean something different by that?