Gender and pronouns

[Wyki]

Before I start, the daily mail and other papers can all fuck off

I’m prepared to be flamed for this as I’ve been here long enough to know how it all works but….

aibu to tell my son he can’t have his partner over any more

It’s a new relationship. My son is 21 and the new partner is 18

He barely works and is consequently on a low salary however he does help me with childcare (that I pay a minimal amount for)

the new partner is a very petite pink haired “girl” that does ballet and dance but uses the pronoun he/him

my 11 year old daughter is finding it confusing and asked if her brother is gay. I replied with “no because the partner is very feminine and is a girl despite the pronouns” (I couldn’t care less if he was gay, sexuality isn’t important)

So am I being unreasonable in saying the partner doesn’t come over as it’s just too weird and I don’t want that example being set for my daughter

No. Because you’re not “discriminating” against them. If you prevented them from having promotion opportunities in work, or excluded them from a team event based on their gender reassignment then that would be discrimination.
But simply referring to them by correct sex pronouns is not. No matter what Stonewall would have employers believe.

FFS there's nothing kind about lying.

It's not kind to pretend to a confused/traumatised/autistic/gay young person that the reason they are unhappy and finding life difficult is that they are trapped in the wrong body.
Social affirmation puts many people on the medical pathway. Increasing number of detransitioners hate what that they have done to themselves, causing irreversible damage to their healthy bodies and wish someone had said No to them.

It's not kind to expect sportswomen to pretend that male cheats are women. That leads to the farce we have just had where the 2 finalists in the Women's Pool competition were both men.

It's not kind to expect a woman to call her rapist she.

It's not kind to refuse women single sex services for rape counselling (look up Sarah Surviving in Brighton).

It's not kind to expect high schoolers to share changing rooms with boys who call themselves girls.

It's not kind to expect women to allow men on lesbian dating sites.

It's not kind to ban women from an International Women's Day event if they belong to a group that recognises the importance of sex (East Sussex WRN banned from Hastings IWD event)

It's not kind to shout abuse at women holding a vigil for Afghan Women (Green Party councillor ranting at women in Norwich)

Conflating being gay/lesbian with TQ+ is also insulting to same sex attracted people who are called transphobic if they assert their right to be same sex attracted rather than same gender attracted.

This is correct but just to note it’s a matter of civil law, not criminal.

Absolutely, yes call them by whatever designation they currently fancy. Obviously, insist they have to refer to you though as Eccentrica Galumbits the Triple Breasted Whore of Erotica 6

Best way to deal with this nonsense is with as much laughter and parody as possible.

Could you post those figures please? Also this isn’t about gay people.

I wondered if it could be interpreted as harassment. Under the EA it's considered harassment if someone makes you feel humiliated, offended or degraded for reasons related to your transition. If someone called you a man or used your male name, it could perhaps be considered offensive or humiliating.

Do explain to me how it's kind for a bloke to use his genetic, physical advantages to unfairly win swimming, boxing, fencing etc competitions against women? Thereby dashing all the womens' hopes and dreams and negating the thousands of hours of practice they put in to achieve those dreams?

Exactly what is kind about that?

Or, when you say be kind do you mean we need to 'be kind' to YOU because you're clearly not very good at thinking?

How does a transwoman interfere with your dreams?

How does any women effect you ?

Why would you misgender someone and bully them ???

Bet you're scared of transwomen in your toilet. Here's the thing - someone violent will hurt you anywhere, not in a toilet.

Some of ye need to speak to your gps about why you hate people who are different to you 😂 I'm so glad I'm a doctor who doesn't have to work in the UK.

All my LGB friends here support trans people.

What are you on about, lying about what ?

If it doesn't directly effect why do you care.

Transwomen do not threaten your personal womanhood. Bet you didn't care about your womanhood until now either.

The science behind what? The science is very clear that no human can change sex. That is undisputed. And one would have assumed that a self professed Dr would know that cosmetic surgeries and cross sex hormones do not change a persons sex.
If I have 6 prosthetic arms sewn on do I become an octopus?

Be kind or I'll kill myself is abusers talk.

ED as in Erectile Disfunction? In which case you should understand the difference between males and females.

What’s the “science” behind it then?

Of course you are dear. An ED doctor who doesn’t know the different between affect and effect

I’m servelan the supreme commander of the universe

Aren’t school holidays fun?

This. I would just say to your DD to refer to the partner by their name at all times.

Bet you're scared of transwomen in your toilet. Here's the thing - someone violent will hurt you anywhere, not in a toilet
Oh look. Its the ' Women! Men will always try to hurt you. Stop making it harder for them' argument. I 'll just tell my friend with a history of being a victim of male violence, who never sits with her back to an open space or door as a result as she cannot see who is coming for her there, what you said here. I'm sure it will really help her to stop being frightened by men in spaces where she is vulnerable.

You haven't actually made any fact based claims for your case at all. You can't respond to any of the issues raised by @cariadlet other than saying, ' Well it doesn't affect you personally so why should you care?' Which has to be the shittest, most ego centred argument ever. Its basically, saying, yeah well, so what if shit things are happening to other women, if its not happening to you just shut up!

Oh and of course the personal insults - y'all haters.

You are an absolute stereotype of a defender of gender ideology. No arguments, just insults. A vague appeal to your 'authority' yet you don't make any case, let alone have data to back it up.

Good grief are they teaching doctors that human's can change sex and that women's rights are irrelevant?

Amazing.

Which uni did you go to Galwaygirlxxx`?

Out of interest if a transwoman has sex with a man can that result in the transwoman experiencing pregnancy? If not why not?

Oh look, and now the argument is, 'Of course I am right, I am appealing to my authority on this, but I won't actually make any case or present any facts or evidence at all. I'm too good to argue with you even though I have chosen to come on here to argue with you!'

You really could not be making yourself more of a joke if you tried!

No, MN is not representative of the UK (thank the Lord).

It's an extremely feminist messageboard and with that you have a much higher proportion of people who hold gender critical views than wider society does, especially so towards transwomen.

The UK is the place where gender bending and androgyny became mainstream in the 1970s, so it's been ahead of the curve when it comes to acceptance beyond the conventional two genders. MN, terf island HQ, is an outlier to this.

I know quite a few transwomen (moreso than transmen) and they have every right to live their lives as women.

@Galwaygirlxxx is a classic example of the psychology and behaviour a person develops when they are absolutely sure they are right, but they have never engaged with the arguments to actually have come to an informed understanding of why they are 'right'.

All that's left to you then, when you are exposed to people who disagree with you, is to froth at the mouth, assert they are wrong, and insult them.

Its a sad indictment of our education system and society that we are producing people like this.

All my LGB friends here support trans people.
The only LGB person I know who has fallen for gender ideology is my lesbian daughter. She's lovely but young and naive. Even she is starting to see through it.

The dozens of middle aged lesbians and gay men that I know, who grew up before gender identity was a trend and when overt homophobia was widespread, all think that gender ideology is bullshit - and regressive, homophobic, sexist bullshit.

If it doesn't directly affect you, why do you care?

So we should only care about issues that directly affect us? Where's the humanity in that?

Does this mean that nobody should protest against the genocide in Gaza?
Demonstrate for the return of Israeli hostages held by Hamas?
Attend vigils for Afghan women?
Give blood?
Help out at their local foodbank?
Donate to charity?

Transwomen do not affect your personal womanhood
Transwomen are men pretending to be women. They don't affect my womanhood anymore than a pantomime horse affects a real horse's experience of being a horse.
That doesn't mean that I have to pretend that they are women.
And if they encroach on my single sex spaces then they will negatively affect my experience of womanhood.

PS Just in case it wasn't a typo, you meant affect, not effect

Yes, of course you're a doctor. Of course.