To NOT feel guilty that my kids are in childcare?

[Kanfuzed123]

Inspired by the childcare eating a £45k salary and the anti nursery sentiment from a few posters on there as being inferior for a child.

anyone else not feel in the slightest guilty that there kids are in nursery and have been post maternity leave?

yeah when they cried at drop off was rough and I called into the check out they were but that soon settled. They do lovely events for the parents and upload lots of amazing activities they do, they’ve made fantastic friends.

I could’ve reduced my hours but I didn’t, we could’ve maybe managed on one salary (glad we didn’t when rates shot up) but I went back FT when dc 1 was 15 months (used annual leave for part time before then) and dc2 was 13 months.

anyone else just not feel guilty? I like the lifestyle we can get when we’re working, especially since the 15 funded hrs and now 30, it’s so affordable. (Eldest is in school and youngest now has the 30 hrs) bill is less than £400 a month inc club etc. I like having something else to focus on too.

im not alone or am I?

Doesn’t miss her enough to give up work though

Right, because then neither of us would be earning income. But guilty enough to cut back.

What in the biological essentialist nonsense is that? Men aren’t suited to childcare, they have been socialised as such and women the inverse

Yet all these women either do or should miss their children enough to give up work. But it’s rarely a question that is posed to men is it?

and I speak as someone whose husband did give up work to look after his children. It’s rare

Mothers get judged far harsher than fathers.

How do we know men aren't as suited to childcare when women tend to do the vast majority of it on the whole?

DH didn’t go part-time but he didn’t push for promotion and he reduced trips away when DC were little so he could spend as much time as he could with them. He got criticised for that. He is now in charge of the office and is very much promoting a family friendly culture for both men and women

Maybe they can't afford to unless on MN where the bills pay themselves.

Not guilty!
My (grown up) offspring have fond memories of day nursery, the staff, activities and the animals. In fact I’d have been more likely to feel guilty if I couldn’t afford to send them there as they loved it.

@Kanfuzed123 I mean, I think there are some women who are particularly bad at it, and some men who are particularly good at it.

But in general, being the ones who carry and nurse the babies gives mums a special bond with them…but the other side of that is that pregnancy/delivery/recovery tends to put a damper on women’s ability to work and be as present in their careers. Women tend to be caretakers for their families even even everyone is sick, just because men biologically handle sickness poorly— our immune systems just work differently.

It also seems like it’s usually the mums doing the scheduling, remembering, planning, prepping, and multitasking— The baby needs a pediatrician appointment scheduled for her immunizations that are due ASAP; on Tuesday, the dog has a vet appointment at 10, Billy’s got football at 3 (oh, and he’s outgrown his cleats; he’ll need to be taken to try on new ones) and Sally has her dance recital at 5, which means uniforms will need to be laundered ready to go the night before, sack lunches will need to have sufficient calories and be filling because the kids are active and dinner might be a tight squeeze… Also the family is running low on groceries so the shopping needs to be done by Monday night; better go inventory the fridge and cupboards to make sure the family eats what’s on hand before anything goes bad and nothing that’s run out is forgotten— god forbid the diapers run out again— and survey for any specific requests… I just don’t see dads thinking ahead that much and managing everything quite as well. They do their best, but the ball is more likely to get dropped somewhere. That’s why you see so many women complaining about doing all the mental labor, and having to task out their husbands all the time, even if they’re willing to help.

Obviously both mums and dads play important roles when it comes to raising kids; I just think mums are better suited to caregiving.

ETA: a classic -

Funny how the woman should be able to give up or go part time though

we do 50/50. If my husband is too dumb to remember football at 5 they don’t go.

50/50 here too.

It isn't biological that some men don't think about food shopping or whatever, it's societal. Society expect women to do it and so do some men so they just don't even think about it. Weaponised incompetence is very much a thing with some men too.

Like I said before too, if women are doing more of it naturally because they are home more then it's easy to fall into it as well.

What have I "done to my child's important years"? I'd like you to explain that for me, as you're happy to fling out inflammatory and ill-founded platitudes.

I was a single mother for ten years. I had to work to keep a roof over her head and food in her belly because I was her only source of income. You're telling me, and other women who chose to work, that they deserve to feel guilty for working. What is your actual evidence for this?

I really couldn't give a tinker's cuss what you think of me as a person because it is much more important for me to provide for my child than to worry about ill-informed and bigoted people. And I don't regret working to provide for her: she's now a happy and healthy teenager.

But I do think if you're saying objectionable things about women who work to support their kids you owe to people to justify them.

My DH does way more of the organising than me - plus all the cooking - I'm useless at anything domestic.

He's like this at work too - very organised and on top of things, like he is at home. It's not a womanly trait to be like that - loads of men have to be like that if they want to get senior in their job.

Also the science shows women are actually WORSE at being ill. Women have a greater immune response because their bodies need it for defending pregnancy etc - so they will get iller with colds than men.

Also, amazingly, they've now found that women need more sleep than men do, and fare worse without sleep. This is because women need 8-10 hours sleep a night to regulate hormones for producing a menstrual cycle - whereas men only need 6-7 hours on average.

Honestly, the differences we see in society are just down to sexist stereotypes - not the biology of the sexes.

I was a sahp and my kids went to daycare for two full days a week - the oldest when I returned to work went more but I gave up work after having my second he went two days, when baby was one she started two days he went three. Never felt guilty. My sanity counted depended on it. Money was not a factor.

Obviously, nobody has a completely ideal childhood, but some childhoods get closer than others. Ideally every child would have loving parents; a supportive extended family living nearby; a big garden; enough money; home cooked food everyday; a wonderful school with small class sizes; lots of fresh air and time playing outside; the list goes on and on.

When it comes to early years childcare, the research does show that it's not ideal for the those under 2 years old. See this post for a good summary: https://criticalscience.medium.com/on-the-science-of-daycare-4d1ab4c2efb4

However, it's also obvious that the reality of financial constraints, mental health etc means that nursery can definitely be better than the alternative in many individual cases. It's still not the ideal though.

If we're honest about the drawbacks of nursery at a young age, then we can do our best to mitigate them. So for example, if we admit that children who go to nursery often have higher cortisol (stress) levels than kids who stay at home, then we can make sure to create as calm an environment as possible at the weekends etc.

Pretending that there are no negatives connected to nursery whatsoever is like an ostrich putting it's head in the sand. You can feel proud that you supported your children, gave them a great childhood, and did your best while still acknowledging the less-than-ideal aspects.

It isn't a good summary though because it looks very American. We don't have daycare centers, we have nurseries and they really aren't the same.

Have you actually read it? It talks about Sweden as a case study, uses a wide range of research from all over the world, and you're dismissing it because they use the word daycare?? Ostrich, head, sand.

It’s been a long time since mine were in nursery but I don’t remember feeling guilty.

I think I was just able to look at the bigger picture and felt as though I was doing the right thing.

Ds1 loved nursery, ds2 didn’t until he got a bit older.

Tbh they barely remember anything about it. Ds1 remembers spilling his lunch and the lady getting some more for him. Ds2 remembers the big slide. That’s it 🤷‍♀️

Neither of them seem to have suffered any ill effects.

I am of the opinion that there isn’t any benefit for the child in going to nursery until at least pre school age. But I haven’t seen any evidence that it causes any harm either.

It's difficult to read all of it because it wants me to sign up.

There's other studies that claim positives of working mothers. Which ones are correct?

It's free to read. Just click the X to close the first sign-up window and the whole article is available to read.

Edited to add: if you have any articles to share, I'll read them.

@Itssofunny

Pretending that there are no negatives connected to nursery whatsoever is like an ostrich putting it's head in the sand. You can feel proud that you supported your children, gave them a great childhood, and did your best while still acknowledging the less-than-ideal aspects.

I would take issue with the idea that it’s beyond debate that there are negatives associated with nursery. That is far from a settled argument and the data presented relates to very specific types of childcare provision as opposed to childcare in a general sense. So describing anyone who challenges this as “an ostrich putting its head in the sand” is an overly alarmist and negative spin on a highly complex situation. But for the sake of argument, let’s say that that’s true.

None of this justifies people like @TheJollyMoose telling me I have “done something to my child” by working to provide for them, as if I had deliberately chosen to do something selfish and reckless against the advice of others which has damaged my child. It’s ignorant and thoroughly offensive.

I am perfectly comfortable with people discussing the merits and drawbacks of childcare but I will call out, again and again and again, people who lack the intelligence and decency to realise that for many of us working to provide for children is a necessity.

Working mothers benefit daughters, study says - BBC News

Working mothers 'do no harm to children's behaviour' - BBC News

Both contradict some other studies.

I always think posters like @TheJollyMoose(who to be fair are incredibly small in number) must be very pissed off and resentful when they see the children of WOHM grow into adults who are as happy and emotionally well adjusted as adults who had SAHM. They only seem able to cope with their perceived ‘sacrifice’ (which isn’t really a sacrifice at all because they no doubt wanted to stop working!) if they convince themselves their children somehow have better outcomes.

My adult offspring would be a big disappointment being happy, successful, with good relationships with me and dh. Plus my career and pension are intact. Sorry not sorry!

Maybe. It's hard to think of any other credible motive other than spite or resentment. There is no intellectual rigour or consistency to it.