Would you do this or is it morally a shit thing to do?

[Juaal]

I really can’t work out what is best here.

Context is I’ve been employed several years in a job I enjoy. A new senior man joined and since his arrival he has been increasingly unpleasant towards me, making some small comments about being a mum and saying he didn’t think I had much character about me.

It got to the point where I had to tell HR and they said this was serious and to formally raise it if I wanted to. I’ve since contacted a lawyer for some initial advice and they’ve said there’s a high chance I could get a settlement of a few months pay. I’ve recently got through to the final rounds of 4 separate interview processes. I want to leave my company now as I just don’t see a a future.

here’s the thing. If I blow things up and send in my formal complaint which I have already prepared, then I could end up with around 25k payout (based on salary and expected months settlement). But, as awful as this man has been, and he really has, I don’t know if he is actually very good at his job. He seems to have a lot of personal problems and I wonder if it would be morally wrong to put him through this complaint. However, friends have said that’s ridiculous as he’s been happy to make my life miserable and push me out of of a job, so why do I care about him. I could also do with the money. And it is true he has pushed me to interview elsewhere. What would you do?

There is the right thing, and then there is reality. Morally you are doing nothing wrong. When people don't sort their issues out and dump them on others its never good for the company.

I wonder if you have to complain to get them to investigate it properly and then can actually do something about it. His actions are his choice, and if he is having issues then he needs to something abou them.

Presumably you're an adult with a few years experience under your belt, within the working world. Imagine a much younger person starting, perhaps it's their first full-time job after university or even school/6th form and their new boss is Mr Knobhead....someone without your experience both in life and working, would find a situation like you've found yourself in, much harder to deal with. For the next poor person who may encounter this dick, you need to make a formal complaint. We all have personal things going on at home, but that doesn't mean it's an excuse to treat colleagues like shit.

I think you are either leaving a lot of info out or you have been unofficially/incorrectly advised.

Any “payout” would be against the company, not the individual. Have they not followed the correct procedures to deal with your grievance? It sounds from your post that they have encouraged a complaint so that they can formally investigate further? But you are wording it like they have encouraged a complaint so you can sue the manager? Which is not what happens.

I don’t know any professional who, at this stage, would even discuss numbers of compensation. The £25k seems like an arbitrary number plucked from nowhere.

I think you need to be extremely careful in how you proceed and get better advice.

They mentioned a few months wages above

I would definitely formally complain, but wouldn't expect a pay out. He shouldn't be able to treat people that way.

I would certainly make a formal complaint and see how they deal with it.

Surely the lawyer said you won't get an instant payout, it depends how the company deal with your complaint first? It doesn't sound like they have done anything wrong yet.

The company chose to employ someone unsuitable for the job. Don't assume and have plans for the money, but pursue it any way.

Good luck with finding a new job.

Nothing will happen to him (perhaps a ticking off or management training) unless he is also bad at his job in which case they’ll use your situation to build a profile of him that may help them sack him in the future. Your ‘moral duty’ lies not in protecting him, but in protecting anyone that comes after you. You have nothing to lose by raising a complaint. You may end up better off and you may help the next person who has to work with him. It’s likely his problems are of his own making because that’s the type of person he is, and maybe this is the shock he needs to be a bit more considerate of others.

Please complain. This man cannot get away with saying these things. Look at it this way, you complaining is hopefully preventing it from happening to someone else.

Secure your new job and make the complaint. You're far to generous to someone who's happy to make your life hell.

The grievance process is brutal and takes months if not years. Unless you are leaving something out the advice you have received from a lawyer is suspect. You will need rock solid evidence in the form of notes you took at the time and any emails from HR confirming what you said is correct. You will also need to show you followed every procedure to get your issues dealt with. If you are thinking you can claim constructive dismissal be warned the bar for this is incredibly high. Personally i wouldn't do it if i had another job to go to as this will take up huge amounts of time and energy. Plus there is no guarantee you'll get anything.

Just curious - why would you be the one to leave (apart from a lump sum of money)? Why not put him through the process and push him out of his job?

I wouldn't think about it from the moral perspective because it sounds like he has behaved inappropriately but more what the impact will be on you.

Do you work in an industry where making a complaint is potentially going to impact future goals? (I'm not saying this is right, but some industries are more gossipy than others and sadly this does happen).

Are you prepared for the stress that comes with a formal legal process if you are not immediately offered a settlement? Has the lawyer advised you about his or her fees in such a situation?

I have left a toxic work situation without making any claim on the basis that I just wanted a clean departure on my terms and to not prolong the agony.

Good luck.

I put through a complaint for behaviour after my maternity leave. I had loads of evidence to support and to indicate my employer knew they were wrong. I felt convinced I would be successful in achieving a settlement, and I was.

However:

1. Even though I was eventually successful, the legal negotations, which went on for more than a year, were some of the most stressful things I have ever experienced. The employer's lawyer used every opportunity to call me a liar and a terrible employee (which was not true and they knew it, but I believed they hoped to intimidate me to withdraw).
2. My settlement was agreed before my tribunal happened, but after the tribunal was scheduled. The tribunal schedule is public information, so all of my social media accounts were stalked by journalists. Also I had an interview for a dream job that was abruptly withdrawn and I am convinced that it was because they found evidence I had raised a claim against an employer. I do not believe most employers will take a risk to hire you if they are aware you have raised a claim. I've counted myself out of roles where a background check is the norm.

If it were me making this decision again, I might leave quietly and avoid the drama. That's a shame but that's me. I did nothing wrong, my employer's behaviour was extraordinarily bad, but this is realistically what a settlement can look like.

Yeah, this. He'll just keep on being a prick until he's told.

This is almost constructive dismissal - your place of work has become so toxic due to the actions of one person, that you want to leave.
Sorry, but if he does have issues, they are not your monkeys. It does not give anyone permission to behave like an arse more than once (I'd maybe give 2 goes, just to be fair, but after that...)
Don't feel guilty - this is for HR to sort, not you.

I hope you actually stay in your present job as it sounds as though you are good at what you do and the firm seem to think so. I think you are best to put in a formal complaint.It is the man who needs to go. He is a bully. A lot of firms settle out of court as they don't want any bad publicity. I wish you all the best OP.

You should raise a grievance OP, he shouldn’t be treating you this way and he needs to go through a process. HR cannot appoint a manager to investigate it unless you raise it formally and pass on the detailed information

I don’t know what your lawyer is talking about re a settlement though? There might be a possibility if say there had been a process followed by your company and the allegations were not taken seriously/there were no actions to come from it. Nor do I think you would be able to claim for constructive dismissal as some pp’s have suggested because the company haven’t been given a chance to properly follow their processes

Im not trying to be unkind when I say that, it’s just that I don’t think you’ve been given great advice from the lawyer about a settlement. It would be easier/less costly for the company to use their processes to tackle the inappropriate colleague than to not tackle it and pay you thousands of pounds?

I would advise speaking to ACAS or joining a union if you can for support then formally raise it, you might still feel you want to leave and work elsewhere but he shouldn’t be treating you that way and he needs to stop. Blokes like that will just keep doing it. He needs a rocket up his arse and it will be nobody’s fault but his!

i also can’t understand why the company would have to pay you any money, since HR haven’t dismissed your claim.

Also, say you leave and get the money, the guy stays and nothing happens to him? So only the company loses here? or are you assuming they’ll sack him too?

I’m not asking these questions maliciously, I wish you the best, I’m just trying to understand what that lawyer told you.

Good luck

I can’t imagine getting that kind of payout. HR has already followed the appropriate process and if they continue doing so then there’s nothing else they can do. First, you will be asked if you will participate in a negotiation. Will you accept an apology from him? Your business isn’t likely to settle right off the bat.

Get the money

One think that struck me when I worked in a role recently where I saw all the claims going through an organisation was that it was men making claims and getting settlements whereas the women were doing the "right thing" and walking away.

Some of these men were well known to be bullies themselves!

@Juaal how did you respond when he said those things? Do you do the same role? Has anyone else noticed or commented about the things he has said?

The lawyer said they won’t want the hassle of a potentially serious claim and would have to spend weeks going through a grievance process anyway. He said on a commercial basis they are likely to offer you a settlement for a quick fix due to the nature of the complaint and the associated time it would take to investigate.

I feel stressed as I am on the cusp of a new job but also I lose all my employment rights if I leave (starting again with 0 service). I would like something there financially as back up when I leave. I feel this is fair. I have prepared the complaint and was about to send it but then second guessed myself

Apologies but am getting on my soap box. Totally agree with majority of what you’ve said here except, I get so frustrated when people say HR are not there for you they are there to protect the company

Technically yes, but majority of the time HR protecting the company means HR advising managers that they need to make sure that shitty behaviours, discrimination, bullying is tackled through the internal processes and appropriate action is taken by management eg dismissals, demotions, warnings, implementing training, recommending new ways or working/policies to protect colleagues, because the risk of management not doing this can lead to employment tribunals/settlements needing to be paid out

So actually majority of the time HR protecting the company is HR protecting colleagues!

Also get frustrated when people say that’s for HR to sort out -I know you haven’t said this. But actually HR don’t sort anything out, they are there to push and advise management to sort things out and in a tribunal HR would get their arses handed to them if they’ve been seen to be making decisions that managers should be making.

Can you tell what job I used to be in btw! 😂 one of the most frustrating things for me was managers asking for advise and not taking it and then making a situation worse, and then HR getting the blame!

Absolutely this. Why on earth are you considering his feelings and circumstances? He has pushed you out of your job. He could do the same to others if there are no consequences to his actions.

Definitely pursue this.