I don't understand how this is manslaughter and not murder

[lifeonmars100]

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/apr/08/two-teenagers-found-guilty- by of-manslaughter-of-80-year-old-man-in-leicestershire-park?CMP=sharebtnurl

I am sure I am not alone in being disturbed and upset by this awful case. I can't stop thinking about this poor man, setting off for a stroll with his dog and then to be the victim of a vicious unprovoked attack of such severity that he died as a result of it. I can't understand how the boy was found guilty of manslaughter and not murder. I appreciate that a murder conviction hinges on "intent" i.e what was in the defendant's mind when they committed the offence and of course I was not in court to hear all the evidence but as a layperson I just don't get it. Maybe things will be clearer when they are sentenced. I feel so sorry for the family, the details are so awful and will surely haunt them forever. The fact that the girl filmed the attack is truly sickening but seems par for the course these days. Mr Kohli must have been terrified and in so much pain, what a terrible end to his life

But is it really punishment...

But is it really punishment...

🙄

I don't know if it's a question of age - I would have assumed the younger they are, the more ignorant of life, and there is more hope for change? - but I can't see how the woman in your story has any prospects of becoming a civilised member of society.

She can't, unless she lives locally and knows who they are. All the rest of us know at the moment is that they racially abused Mr Kohli, which suggests they are a different ethnicity, but not necessarily white.

You clearly aren't thinking straight.

These are 13 and 15 year old children. They have been convicted of manslaughter. They will get a custodial sentence. I think it's a dreadful travesty that this has happened. Everyone loses.

I wouldn't want to give the children personal notoriety by advertising their names. To me, it serves no purpose.

Save the space for speaking about the victim. For his family, friends and community.

Murder requires intent to kill, or to commit serious bodily harm. So of you intend to seriously hurt someone and they die as a result of that, it's murder - even if you didn't actually intend to kill them.

I don't know the details of this case. If they pleaded guilty then they probably did some kind of plea bargain ie CPS drop the charge from murder to manslaughter on understanding that they admit to it and plead guilty.

Just read it and there was a trial so no plea bargain...

Two wonderful specimens of the human race.

I’m sure they’d have turned into productive, hard working members of our society, if it hadn’t been for this ‘unfortunate’ incident 🙄

At the risk of sounding like a Daily Fail opinion piece, it scares the shit out of me that ‘we’ are producing so many of these feckless and violent kids. I’d be unsurprised if their family members, having seen and heard all the evidence in court, STILL think that their progeny should have been let off or that the poor victim deserved it. The two picked up their racism from someone.

There is no such thing as a plea bargain in the English criminal system. Prosecutors have no power to make sentencing recommendations.

And we don’t have plea bargaining in this country

What on earth are you banging on about?!

Yes we do

The CPS and the defence often reach an agreement where they will reduce a charge eg from murder to manslaughter if the defendant pleads. They cannot guarantee a specific sentence but they can reduce the charge. That's a plea bargain.

Hope someone sorts the little shits out when they are properly detained.

That poor man.

As you admit, you don't know the details or what was said in court, so I don't know why you question the verdict.

That's not what the law says. Your view is irrelevant to the law.

I'm amazed that people who weren't in court, aren't legal experts and don't know all the details seem to think they know what the verdict should have been.

Horrific this is what gentle parenting gets u I guess their mum's must be proud as punch these two should be locked up named shamed n key thrown away that poor man

I'm local to this area and if you want to see the problem go onto any Leicestershire Live post on FB and look at the comments. Anything that could be blamed on anyone with brown skin is, to the point the page deliberately posts items that they know will incite hatred for the clicks.

Is it any wonder that local kids are seeing that as the rhetorical then thinking it's OK to act like this?

I really hope that they're named and their families don't get a free pass to carry on life as normal whilst the victims family are reminded of their loss every single day.

Many people know exactly who they are. Their names have been on social media sites for months.

Leicester is obviously a large city but the area that the two killers are from is a shit hole IMO, it's not very nice and never has been. Everyone knows everyone's business and 'outsiders' are rarely welcome.

If you're from the area then yes you'd already know them / have heard of them but SM allows their names to be spread around so quickly.

Exactly what I thought. Very upsetting.

It's good I think for the justice system to think carefully about how to do that. People assume the courts should be lenient in order to try and rehabilitate, but I don't always think that is quite right,

The idea to rehabilitate if possible is good, it's fundamentally better for everyone and society. But it can be hard to know how to be effective.

I am not in the UK, but a few years ago there were some changes made to prosecution of youth here; where before they had avoided custodial sentences, someone said - wait - a lot of these kids are having problems because the home environment is bad, and their friends and community probably contribute too. If we could get them out of that earlier, into a supportive detention, maybe that would actually allow us to help them before things get to the point where they aren't going to be able to turn back. So they tried that, and it's been successful. Of course it's not like it's changed everything, it's not magic, but moving kids in terrible home situations to a place where they are given regular food, exercise, good teachers who can deal with learning issues, disapline, and role models, seems to work better when they are 13 than when they are 17. There is an overall reduction in recidivism, which is a good outcome IMO.

Give your head a wobble! That's your take on this situation?! Ffs.

I think this is a good point.
It's amazing how often apparently uncontrollable anger can be controlled right until a suitable victim (weaker) appears.
And the coldness of scoping him out in the park. It wasn't the Military Fitness Instructor they chose, was it?
Poor gent. RIP.

It sounds as though the girl had planned to incite violence, and the boy had taken a balaclava out to avoid being recognised.

There was definitely some intent there.