45k salary entirely eaten by childcare

[Sofiewoo]

Granted salaries aren’t what they were only a handful of years ago but aibu to be shocked that my 45k salary is now entirely eaten by childcare and getting to work??
I figured if you are earning in the 20s you would assume that but not mid 40s!

I’m trying to weigh up whether to just take the next year and a half off instead of working for nothing. I know, pension, career blah blah but it’s mentally very difficult to juggle drop offs, work schedules and sickness but be no better off financially at the end of the month.

Did anyone else not realise it was a bad as this?

If you are looking for a solution then I would highly suggest dropping to 2/3 days a week if you can in your profession. Until children are at school. That way you are still employed and enjoy adult conversation and a purpose BUT you aren't losing out financially.

@AnnaBalfour
sorry I don’t agree with this - I too worked and had two children less than two years apart. It was so expensive it was hardly worth working.
It can literally be impossible for some people to return to work as it’s not financially worth it which can leave many families financially compromised as they are stuck unable to bring more money into the home due solely to childcare prices. It’s counterproductive

Exactly.

Why it's the cost of childcare always compared to what the mum makes. What happens to the father.

It's always the same story:

1. Woman start questioning the importance of financial independence ("Is it worth childcare vs what I earn?")

1. Being cheered by society: "you are a great mum for leaving the workforce and focus on your children" " don't let others raise your children" "I never regreted being the one always there for my children" Note men never ever say stuff like that.

1. Reinforcement: "my children are thriving and it works for our family" " it's a lot more relaxing for everyone and you only live once"

1. Shock: husband's job/ poor health/ mental health issues/ get his head turned/ leaves/ addiction strikes. Shock horror. "Why this is happening to me"

1. Stay stucked to someone while no real choice while desperately try to look for a job that would pay the bills. Under pressure is not the way to build a carreer. Realisation that you needed to keep that career.

As women we are great for many things. But something so simple as seing reality as it is, we go around in circles.

Stay in the workforce OP.

I was in the same position. I think the question you really have to ask yourself, is, honestly, what would you prefer to do? I know there are some people who would find the idea of being 24/7 with young children lonely and difficult, especially if they love their career. On the other hand, if you really want to be with your own children when they're little and would resent missing out on that special time, then that's your priority. Both are hard work, both are financially difficult, at the end of the day, it'll go much quicker than you think, do whatever is going to make you happiest. Life is short, not everyone's priorities are the same. Personally, I took time off, worked as a childminder for a while (which was great) and looked after my own for a bit and earnt some money doing it. I've now gone back to my original career relatively unscathed. I'm very glad I had that time with my children and wouldn't change it for the world. Best of luck whatever you decide to do.

@LadyLapsang we do get taxed less, yes. Child benefit is about 550€ per month. After school club is free too until children are 9-10. Loads of playgrounds everywhere, and loads of youth centres that are free to join as well - for example one place where they have a reading room, a wood workshop, a bonfire where they toast bread on a stick etc... all free of charge, all government funded, for kids to go to. There are things I love about the UK but children and families are just not considered a priority by the government sadly.

For the past 4 years my entire salary has equalled childcare costs, thats part time working and PhD studies so a full working week but flexible enough to have our daughter in care only 3 days, and I covered the remaining 2. It's been fully worth it to maintain my career, while I don't contribute as much as my partner we view childcare as a shared expense and so while my income has been the same as childcare outgoings for the most part, it never felt like it was my burden, we opted for 2 days with a nanny which was excellent and 1 day at nursery, we always used tax free until the 30 hours kicked in where we added an extra day in private nursery (since 10 hour days and all year round care = 20 hrs per week) until she started school in Aug. All the while iv been paying into pension and paying NI, whilst enjoying my career and caring for our daughter. That's not to say juggling any of it has been easy. I think this post boils down to values. If you want to keep your career, in this climate, its best to be grateful to have a job.

Op, those costs sound astronomical! I boys are older now so can’t comment.

i took 4 years out of work (mainly because oldest has SN), it was impossible to get back into my old industry as I hadn’t kept up with relevant experience. I retrained and started all the way from the bottom. I don’t regret it though.

are you able to become self employed whilst reducing your hours? Not sure what industry you’re in. If you decide to stop full time work, I think that’s perfectly understandable. Just make a plan beforehand to make sure you are able to jump into the workplace again (consulting, training, temp work,etc)

We pay £6k per month for 3 DC in nursery. The only way we can afford it is because we both have high salaries.

When my children were born, there were no free hours until the 15 hours that started the term after they turned 3.

I had two fairly close together and the combined nursery fees were over £2k a month (this was a decade ago) so I took a 3 year career break. We viewed it as a joint household cost but I decided I’d rather take the career hit and be with the children than spend that much on childcare.

It took me about 3 years to get back to where I was pre-children when I went back to work so all in all it set my career back 6 years realistically BUT I have no regrets, it was worth it to have the time with the children.

I am also aware that I was very lucky we could live on one salary for 3 years. We spent al our savings to facilitate it and mortgage rates were much lower then so was possible!

Goodness, I feel you’ve received some rather brutal comments here. My children are 20 months apart and I feel fortunate that we didn’t experience this as I worked in the week and my husband quit his management job and got a weekend retail job. This meant he kept a little bit of income and NI etc, but he did all the childcare in the week. This was from our children being 15 weeks old. It was incredibly tough as we didn’t see each other for 5 years really, but saved the huge childcare costs. I think unfortunately whatever way you decide to do it, there is a hit. Whether financially, as a couple, in your career, these things really don’t get spoken about.
Could you look at a sabbatical for a year to give you some breathing space and see how this works? Or drop to maybe 2 days a week to keep your children socialising at nursery? I do think that nursery experience in the year before reception is invaluable for children, even if it’s 15 hours.
Good luck with working out what’s best for you and your family ❤️

We had four in nursery at the same time. While it did eat up the equivalent of one of our wages, it was made easier by career progression, and neither of us missed out on our pension contributions.

In what world does a £45k salary equate to £45k in take home pay? Not sure I’d want to live there, public services must be awful and no pension to speak of in the future…

I agree @girlswillbegirls.

One thing to ask is at the moment childcare is taking up a wage. You’ve said your wage.

My kids are now teenagers. I took both periods of mat leave as at the time it wasn’t shared parental leave and it felt like the ‘right’ thing to do.

It turns out it wasn’t, as my career has developed hugely. My husband has never been a high flier or looked to be a leader/people manager etc.

It’s always worth thinking about what careers look like in 3/5/10 years time and who will be the bigger earner or who wants to really work on a career. Childcare is expensive but it does ease massively as they hit primary and secondary school.

For us, it turned out to me who should have stayed in work and not my husband.

I think childminders are the way to go. Home from home environment, small ratios and much cheaper. I pay £65 a day including all food and consumables, in London. I will do council-run term-time nursery mixed with council-run holiday clubs when my now 3-year-old is in her pre-school year. This is what I did for my son. The council run/school nurseries are so much cheaper than the private nurseries and they all have holiday schemes for working parents.

i feel for OP, mine are 10/13 now so we have pick ups and school holidays to pay for. It was hard when they were both in childcare.
If possible see if your employer could enable cut hours so you can try and balance it a bit better - even if still breaking even but having time with the kids too.
i do also see your point about the costs, I do wonder where the money is going though as the nursery workers are always on minimum salaries - yet fees are high and as the kids get older the ratios increase.
i was very lucky to have an ofstead outstanding childminder who when I got to free hours, was transparent about what the government funded per hour, and that she wanted to accept funded children so would need to charge the difference. So it worked out I was paying 1.50 per hour for the funded hours and then normal rate for non funded and school holidays - to me it felt like a win win as it was continuity for our kids. For your overall rate to be more expensive than un funded doesn’t sound right, and unless the nursery is using funding to subsidise the unfunded kids, there must be some fiddling?

How much would a nanny cost where you are?

100% this! Bugger the pension - You need to, and should want to live your life now. Who knows what's around the corner!? Spending your younger days paying for some hipster to bugger off on spa days, with your wages, while you slog your guts out, is a piss take!

I have been here! I would watch our minder, swanning off for posh, champagne-lunch with her Mother, while I was stuck in an office...and I just thought...I'm coming to work to pay for a minder, when I could just be as equally broke, at home, looking after my own children! So, I dropped my hours, claimed UC childcare element, and didn't return full-time until my kids were old enough to walk home and get themselves a snack, or bung something in the microwave. Even now I work compressed hours so I still get to spend time with them.

You can't take your pension to the grave, and I'm sure your children will turn out to be happy teens and adults.

Same, my daughter went to a chain nursery in the early 2000’s and I think it was £25 a day for 10 hours which included all food, nappies, snacks etc. The childminder a few years later was £3.50 an hour.

Fucking hell, here I was thinking mumsnet was a forum of generally intelligent posters and came across this thread where people live in a reality where income tax, student loans, travel expenses, and shared finances don't exist. OP you're a saint for dealing with some of these morons.

I currently have a child in nursery so know exactly what you're going through. It's definitely motivated me to go for promotions/pay rises as otherwise it's mentally hard to leave my daughter for others to care for if the household won't financially benefit in the short term.

However, main motivating factors for returning to work were: financial independence (I love my husband but I've seen too many women screwed over by divorce to risk relying on him), career progression, pension, maintaining skills (I already lost so much confidence with my 6 month mat leave, I don't know how I'd manage after years out!).

It does help to think about how short this time period really is - once your eldest goes to school you'll be a bit better off financially even with wrap around care.

YANBU to think something is wrong with a system in which you're earning well over the national average, have only 2 children and still not taking home any real net profit.

Other countries manage to provide affordable childcare, the UK chooses not to. The public are so defeated that they'd prefer to call working mums unreasonable for expecting some financial compensation for the hours they put in rather than protest the government. Meanwhile the government scratches its head and bemoans low productivity.

If we had childcare as a tax write off or treated it like a business expense I'd wager we'd actually boost the net tax margin, raise productivity and lower the amount spent on benefits. Why make women either struggle or opt out of the workplace for up to 5 years when we could enable them to work the hours they want to?

Mine are a similar age and walk themselves home ( latchkey kids) and usually manage to keep themselves amused at home during holidays when we try to wfh more.

In a few years there'll be uni to pay for / help towards so these are the golden years.

It might be hard to get back into the working world when nearly 50.

Keep working, I would.

Not entirely by childcare...government took a big chunk of it as well.

And what did your husband say when you put that to him?

Or whoever it was who funded you to stay at home and enjoy them.

It's interesting that given the prevalence of them on MN, I must have encountered women who think like you many times when my children were being 'brought up' by others whilst I was at work. Strangely none of these women who think my place is at home and that any form of paid childcare (but not school......that's different) is outsourcing 'raising' your children have voiced that view when I've been resuscitating their child.

Depressing to see this. Not so much because childcare is expensive - it deserves to be well resourced. The problem from my point of view is that I keep seeing posts and responses that assess childcare as being something that is only the responsibility of women. The childcare costs are just as much the responsibility of one parent as the other. School or care drop off and pick up arrangements can be seen as relevant even to men, not just women. If the childcare is going to cost £45k per year that should be considered as £22.5k per parent, not simply seen as a deduction from the earnings of the mother. As long as women see childcare as something to be deducted from their wages we are doomed to an endless unhappiness …

I'll tell that to my SAHD husband who lost his career then