Why is ND a common excuse for poor behaviour now?

[PonderingCarefully]

To be clear, this isn't a bashing thread as I'm generally interested in views and reasonings. Posting here for traffic really.

I get ND is a huge thing now and way more people are being vocal about it being accepted in society. This i am in favour of but.... so often now, especially on MN/SM, you see people excusing or questioning if poor behaviour is a result of undiagnosed ND. For example, a partner withdrawing/saying hurtful things would usually be seen as abuse now it's are they on the spectrum? A friend who's taking advantage is no longer seen as a entitled CF but is said to need more patience incase they are ND.

Why is this? Is it now a society norm that you actually need to feel quilted into accepting this behaviour just incase there's something undiagnosed at play? Are we now going to start seeing abusers and bully's in a new light of "maybe it's not their fault" now?

I used to think ‘everyone is ND nowadays’ and wonder if it was just an excuse made for slightly highly strung kids, but then I had my profoundly autistic DS and wow has it opened my eyes. I just spent the weekend at centre parks desperately trying to keep his clothes on him and keep him off the tables at restaurants.

this life is miserable

I’m ND as I’m diagnosed autistic and ADHD. All 3 children are ASC and youngest is also ADHD. They do not behave badly.

Society does not fit around them or make allowances. It’s just how it is, you might find some people / school etc will use different strategies but not all. Not all people are kind. A reasonable adjustment fine but….

But I’ve had parents say that my child can’t sit still in a cinema and gets out of their seat and screaming and shouting say angrily ‘they are ADHD and can’t help it’ but actually we are all equal and does everyone have the same right to sit in a cinema if one person is running around and screaming - because they are ‘ADHD’ does everyone else who has paid for a ticket lose the right to concentrate and listen to the film because one person can’t - whatever the reason. Is that fair? Is that reasonable?

This is beautifully written and explains things very well x

Maybe… but then I think “bad” behaviour is usually down to something rather than an evil streak.

My last two partners have been really odd in ways, I thought eccentric but then with so much about ASD around - I am sure that they both are. And they do too once I’ve pointed out. I did wonder if they were pleased at having an “excuse”. But then again, it helped them understand themselves and get some help?

This site is for giving opinions, don’t accuse everyone who has a different opinion to you as a being an ableist, I’m certainly not……ridiculous comment, you need to accept that other people may have points of view / opinions that may not align with yours without getting nasty and accusatory about it

You specifically implied I was stupid for not understanding something you had said after I specifically said I often didn't understand things and would ask for clarification. That ableist.

I agree with you 100% @PonderingCarefully but I know some people don't like people saying what you've said. I think a lot of will agree with you to be honest. Many people have had enough of it.

I want no further interaction with you, your behaviour is unreasonably aggressive

Being the well behaved neuro divergent i am, I'm literally looking at my messages to see where I was a shit but as is often the case, Ill take responsibility now and apologise.

Seriously, it was the comment about thinking I was being a silly nut and you wouldn't explain when I had specifically explained that I didn't understand a lot of stuff. I often ask for explanation.

Im realky sorry if you took that personally. In my defence I was in the midst of explaining why i found that so hurtful and that people think I'm a bitch. I'm not. I just don't understand. And I lashed out. Apologies.

Omg and you reported my posts.

I'm really sorry. I did not mean to be a shit.

Xxx

NICE guidelines say once a year. That’s gold standard which very few areas if any will go above if not necessary.

I'm going to go sit in a corner and think about how meta this is right now, sorry for derailing your thread normal people, I'm sorry I upset you strangerthings.

Still think you were a bit mean tho. But I should respond with kindness (in a nice way, not patronising, dear god I annoy myself 🤦)

I read the GPs info myself as the GP asked me to email the department to advise them of the GP's new guidelines and it said 6 months. You are probably quoting NHS England. Surprisingly not everyone on Mumsnet lives in England.

I agree, and I may or not be autistic too.I say this because I'm tired of the us and them thinking.

ND is not a moral value, and I really don't like the 'not made for us' narrative. Because the world is also not made for minorities, women, those with physical disabilities, single parents etc. Those living in conflict zones. There is no virtue in being ND - or NT. World can be a rubbish place for a lot of people.

Both ND and NT can have good or bad mental health, can be trustworthy or not, show good or poor behaviour. And yes, I've certainly seen those trying to explain abusive or aggressive behaviour 'but it's ND so you need to be kind'. My take it - at certain point it does not matter if it's trauma, difficult childhood, autism or 'difficult character'. I think we are doing kids - and adults - a massive disservice telling them others always have to adjust to them at all costs.

You get a bashing because lots on mn are incapable of understanding that it’s ok to question things

and I agree with the op (and am saying that with family members that are ND).

it’s being used in many cases now to try and explain behaviour rather than accept the person concerned is in fact abusive and rude and is NT

added to which being ND doesn’t give a catch all excuse to forgetting manners and being rude or being nasty.

yes some will get overwhelmed with activities but coping mechanisms should be in place

I work with a lot of ND kids. I was doing bike skills with one. He started by telling me he had ADHD and couldn't be expected to listen.

I told him he may find it hard to focus, but I would give short and clear instructions. If he couldn't follow them then we'd have to stop because it wouldn't be safe.

He did brilliant listening for all the sessions.

I wasn't going to let him use his ND as an excuse for poor, rude or unsafe behaviour (although i was happy to redefine what poor or rude meant to account for his quirks. ).

Ds is ND. We've always worked on the basis he finds some things easier than others, and many things harder. We will always help him find strategies to help him navigate the hard bits, and he will make mistakes but there are boundaries in place and it's not an excuse to be an arse.

OP, I get what you're saying. Poor behaviour is often assumed to be due to ND. But there are people in the world who are just twats.

It isn’t. hth

Perhaps... but... in the past many people 'coped' before crashing and burning. Often at the point kids came along and it all became too much. A close relative of mine died by suicide after autistic burnout in his 40s. The suicide rate for people with ADHD is 5x higher than usual.

I'm not sure the old solution of ignoring issues and forcing people to mask was as good as it seems on the surface.

There has to be a balance.

No, but many of the examples people give are actually just 'normal' behaviour. Like when someone says they have anxiety when they are stressed or that they don't like confrontation, who does? It gets overused like so many things now and used as an excuse which is unfair as it dilutes all scenarios.

You gave him reasonable adjustments, many ND children and adults don’t get given that luxury.

I am ND hence my username.

ND is not an excuse for poor behaviour but it is an explanation for misunderstood behaviour.

It’s an excuse for everything. Poor behaviour, crime, not working and living off the taxpayer.

Taking personal responsibility is just unfashionable. Having a label? On the other hand is trendy.

I think it's a combination of things - a lot of things are pathologised unnecessarily, for starters. You can feel anxious without having anxiety disorder, but we seem to have dropped the "disorder" part now and as soon as someone feels anxious, they "have" anxiety and that's part of their identity.

Also, diagnosis takes much longer meaning some people struggle a lot more, and there are people using diagnosis as an excuse. I was diagnosed and medicated for ADHD on the NHS about a year before it suddenly exploded and was everywhere with all the private diagnoses etc, and medication was a game changer - I went from jumping job to job, to holding down a job in the same career for 7 years until different ill health got in the way. What I'm seeing more at the moment is "I got my private ADHD diagnosis, this means I'm unable to work", which I can't wrap my head around. Someone in my situation nowadays would have to wait a lot longer for diagnosis and medication, so it is harder on those people where it has a significant impact on their ability to function.

Social media plays a big role. There are communities for different conditions, which is a blessing and a curse because you can get advice and camaraderie, but humans naturally don't like feeling left out so they think "I'm going to get in on that", and some conditions - neurodivergence, invisible illnesses like EDS, POTS etc, are easier to fake to gain entry to this "club". I do think there are a lot of harmful online communities where the sicker you "are", the more attention and sympathy you get, and people become addicted to that. Like Munchausen by Internet.

Equally, society's patience with neurodivergence has thinned because it's become so diluted with people looking for excuses, so those who genuinely need understanding and acceptance aren't getting it when needed - instead they're told "oh yeah, who isn't neurodivergent these days, that old excuse", and it isn't accepted as a reason for their behaviour.

I don't think it's an issue with a single cause that can be fixed immediately.