To think it doesn't always start at home?

[BePoliteOpalQuail]

I have recently been supply teaching in different schools for a month.
Many lovely, hardworking and studious kids, quite a few who try it on with having supply teachers.
Some who spoke to me like I was something they'd stepped in, even at the age of 11 and 12 which is concerning.

I just wonder more and more where this comes from, as it was concerning. I went to seek support from another classroom and a 12 year old girl scowled at me 'Look at you, just stood (standing) there.

I would ask troublemakers to move seats and some would pretty much laugh in my face and say 'erm, nope'.

I asked a 13 year old to put their phone away and they said 'Are you dumb or what? I'm not on it. Are you gonna stop going on at me now?'

Further examples. Or if I gave them a sanction or had them removed some of them would literally shriek at me 'What have I done! I haven't even done anything! What the fuck, you're a joke!

I have been out of teaching for a while but was astonished to hear the complete lack of respect. I know supply teachers are usually regarded as not 'proper teachers' by kids, but I just never remember it being this bad.

There is absolutely zero respect for teachers and adults. A real level of contempt from them if you dare to ask them to do anything, and a lashing of abuse.

Some people will say this starts at home. It may do sometimes, but not for all of them?
What's the solution to behaviour like this?
Each time, I told them firmly to never speak to me, or anyone, in that manner ever again.

Whereabouts is this ? Location ish

And is this an inner city school ?

Merseyside, it wasn't in the best area.

If not at home, where do you think they've picked this up?

I hear parents talk shockingly to their kids /to others in front of the kids (either in person or on the phone). It's nothing I like I remember from my childhood but I live in a very different area from the one I grew up in.

This is one that I think actually DOES start at home. Culturally and socially, there's a real lack of respect for authority. In an effort to empower people and treat everyone more equally - which is a good thing - it's too often been warped to mean that lots of people think they can do whatever they like, whenever they like.

Similarly, as our society has moved to one that is more child centric and takes children's feelings and needs far more into account (vs the bare minimum) again, this is broadly a good thing. But it had gone too far in certain situations so some parents start to think that means no one has the right to tell their child off (and the child quickly learns to agree with this) and poor behaviour is excused.

Tis the internet
and telly
Too much too young
Lota of content like that: it is presented as a “joke” but in reality it’s rude and disrespectful but kids who are now just growing up haven’t seen enough of anything different prior to understand the difference

Horrifying. I experience the same as a manager in a workplace where the
majority of our new starters are school leavers.

they are aghast at being told they can’t wear slippers in the office and that they’re expected to be in their seats by 9am.

try and address persistent lateness or attitude concerns with them and they immediately accuse you of bullying

Learning respect does start at home, but also self respect and self confidence starts at home. These rude aggressive mouthy kids don't have any of the above, they are desperate to impress their peers, desperate to intimidate anyone in authority, because it gives them some kind of attention or sense of power that they feel they lack.

So I don't honestly believe it all comes back to home environment and parenting (or lack of).

do honestly that should have said!

I was thinking about this in a crowded train the other day when a three year old who could have easily sat on the knee of their mum seated next to them had their own seat, which just wouldn’t have happened when I was a kid. For better or worse kids learn very early that they don’t need to defer to adults/that their needs are more important. And it definitely has consequences.

Yes.

I had a stand off a few months ago in a shopping centre. I was walking up some stairs carrying a couple of heavy bags of shopping to the car park. Two teenage girls were coming down the stairs. They refused to move to the other side of the stairwell for me. I had a similar situation with DD the other day and DD (who is 10) was horrified.

But I supsect, from when they were toddlers, their parents were expecting everyone else to move for THEM. You see it often these days - toddlers running riot and the parents smiling indulgently. Not ALL, not at all, but enough that you can see how it then filters through as these children get older.

Kids spoke like that to teachers when I was at school 30+ years ago- they did get in trouble for it though. We didn't get in trouble for forgetting a ruler though and had a third of the homework they get now. And we weren't constantly measured and tested from age 5.

Kids did not speak like that to teachers 30 years ago. I have been teaching for nearly thirty years and things were different when I started out.

It was a rarity 30 years ago, not the norm and being tested is no excuse whatsoever.

This crappy behaviour and lack of respect for teachers, any authority, is learnt at home. Ttoo many parents just don’t want to parent because it’s hard work having to deal with the fallout and behaviour when you say no.

Jesus Christ a three year old doesn’t need to forgo their need to sit for you.

This

Jesus Christ I am not asking the three year old to stand but to sit on his/her parent’s lap, which is a pretty normal position for a small child. It’s not for me but for adults who may find it harder to stand and also don’t have the option of sitting on someone else, as a small child travelling with an also seated parent does. Does that help?

And lostcat has just shown us exactly what is wrong with the kids of today.

I think it does still start at home, but the job of instilling respect is made harder by access to social media and chat groups. Plus more households where both parents are working longer hours or two jobs to make ends meet, meaning they are home less. I also agree that the whole "child centric" stuff has gone too far in some places - children's feelings need to be considered but that doesn't mean that they always trump everyone else

I have just returned to my teaching job after maternity leave and I have also got a shock at how poor the behaviour is. Complete lack of respect for teachers and adults. I think it does start at home. Even if a well mannered child makes a mistake a supportive parent would nip this in the bud and sanction them at home too. This seems to have completely broken down. Lots of parents think it’s our problem to sort out but also ask what we have done to contribute towards being told to shut up or called a name. Currently working on an exit plan!

They did and some kids spoke to teachers like that when I first started teaching too. It’s not new. However, this is a whole different level and intensity. You need to be very skilled in behaviour management to actually teach and get good outcomes. To keep that up for 5 hours a day every day is exhausting. There is a reason why 40,000 teachers left teaching last year, not including retirement.

I can imagine, I bet it’s a full time job just controlling the class at times, never mind actually teaching and getting them to learn something.

It really is. I’m not necessarily talking about big behaviour incidents (although they do happen too) but the constant disruption to learning. Talking over me, not picking up a pen, trying to put their friend off across the room, swinging on chairs, arriving late, making silly noises, not doing homework. It all requires time and patience to deal with that detracts from the learning and it is very very draining.

we have lost a sense of community and the 'it takes a village' vibe. It used to be that if kids were being cheeky when out and about then other adults would bring them up on it, more community police presence etc. No people are too scared to tell kids off - either because they may have a knife or the parent will come round effing and blinding. Theres been a decline in respect generally for other people - people getting stoppy in the supermarket coz the cashier isnt going fast enough or something is out of stock, people shouting at bus drivers for being late etc etc. All these little things chip away at society. We have become much more selfish.

Kids learn this behaviour from parents, extended family, neighbours and other people at school as well as what they see on TV and online.

I work at a lovely school. The type that everyone is desperate for their child to attend. Behaviour generally great.
They are hideous for supply teachers. They call them 'subs'. They band together as a glass against them and generally are horrible.