To think it doesn't always start at home?

[BePoliteOpalQuail]

I have recently been supply teaching in different schools for a month.
Many lovely, hardworking and studious kids, quite a few who try it on with having supply teachers.
Some who spoke to me like I was something they'd stepped in, even at the age of 11 and 12 which is concerning.

I just wonder more and more where this comes from, as it was concerning. I went to seek support from another classroom and a 12 year old girl scowled at me 'Look at you, just stood (standing) there.

I would ask troublemakers to move seats and some would pretty much laugh in my face and say 'erm, nope'.

I asked a 13 year old to put their phone away and they said 'Are you dumb or what? I'm not on it. Are you gonna stop going on at me now?'

Further examples. Or if I gave them a sanction or had them removed some of them would literally shriek at me 'What have I done! I haven't even done anything! What the fuck, you're a joke!

I have been out of teaching for a while but was astonished to hear the complete lack of respect. I know supply teachers are usually regarded as not 'proper teachers' by kids, but I just never remember it being this bad.

There is absolutely zero respect for teachers and adults. A real level of contempt from them if you dare to ask them to do anything, and a lashing of abuse.

Some people will say this starts at home. It may do sometimes, but not for all of them?
What's the solution to behaviour like this?
Each time, I told them firmly to never speak to me, or anyone, in that manner ever again.

That’s an unusually adamant response and very different to my own experience. People who are meaningfully engaged with hope for their future do not behave like this. It isn’t a new phenomena.

The seat thing is such a red herring. My mother is an introvert and needs space and I learnt that on a long journey it is ok for a parent/mother/adult to have a book to read and take up space. Not that parents must act as a living child seat. Guess what, I learnt to play quietly and sit properly as a child, and as an adult I enjoy taking up space on public transport and reading even when entitled people usually men try to bully me out of my space.

There's just something inherent when you have that kind of attitude it's very me, me, me which I'm sure filter's down to the kids. Your 12 yo isn't more or less entitled, sometimes it's just nice to think of other people instead of automatically thinking of yourself. I've always stood for other people, it's just second nature, like a PP it's just manners. It's very interesting when travelling the world to see how different countries treat their elders, I think having respect for people is a good thing.

Your mum being an introvert meant she didn't want her child in her lap. Wow.

So you took up a seat that you weren't paying for at the expense of a paying adult standing and you think you've been taught good manners?!

Thankfully yes I was brought up to believe that mothers deserve thinking time, that companionship is a skill, and that humanity doesn't have a monetary price on everything. I also believe in subsidising travel and that's worked out by transport companies and/or governing authorities. According to what's best for society to flourish.

I don't see gentle parents among those who the OP describes. They are the ones calling ther toddlers cunts and sluts, shouting 'fucking move' and slapping them. Their primary aged children are rarely in school because it means getting up of a morning. They are also kept off so they don't blurt out what's gone on at home. It's usually generational. My colleague had to deliver a positive parenting course, but as I pointed out, thise recommended for the course hadn't got a clue about the basics.

I work in a historical visitor attraction and we get lots of children in. Some of the behaviour is absolutely appalling and the parents just ignore it. One child attempted to push his elderly grandad down a flight of stairs while mum and dad laughed. We have furniture over 500 years old and I have to intervene when parents allow their children to jump all over it- I'm very polite but the parents and children are absolutely shocked that they're being told no. I dread to think how they behave at school and how will they cope with the world of work?

You would be surprised. Yes these parents and children exist but it’s a far wider issue than that. Some of our most challenging students come from parents with professional careers. They can do no wrong. It isn’t just one demographic.

@Bringmeahigherlove what challenges are they bringing? Have they tracked down wider family on social media and are smashing up cars, turning up tooled up? Are they attacking police, en masse, when the police turn up to stop them getting off their face and storming shops? Are they attacking tourists and targeting cash machines?
Where about are you?

They did 20-25 years ago when I was at school. Obv not most kids, but the minority with attitude problems were always like that. I remember it well, 'not FAIR miss I ain't done nothing, why you fucking picking on me!!' and I was at secondary school in the 90's.

Well no because I am talking about in schools. They abuse staff - verbally and physically, their parents are rude and argumentative, they challenge every decision made. I’m not saying the behaviour you describe doesn’t exist, I’m saying it isn’t one demographic of children causing behavioural issues in schools. The extreme behaviour you describe would almost be easier to deal with in schools as it’s more likely to warrant permanent exclusions. I am talking about persistent and exhausting poor behaviour, manners and lack of respect.

Agree...

Now in my 60's, very rarely go on one now, but we were taught the same thing when on a train with my parents so once old enough to go it alone I still gave up my seat.

Those that think a child shouldn't have to sit on someone's lap, fine to have that opinion, but also need to remember nine times out of ten they are the very one's that won't give up a seat once they're older either and will willing see an elderly/pregnant person left to stand.

Well, it just takes one look at MN threads here everyday about how horrible the kids are and how their parents keep excusing them. 'Because she/he's ND, has ASD, ADHD, anxiety' and a thousand of other things so it's OK for them to behave like that. It's the teachers now who are always at fault. Children are incredibly spoilt today and they are brought up as if they are the most important beings in the world - the current approach is that the child must be at the centre of everything and parents are guild-ridden all the time if they don't provide whatever the kid wants and if they are not friends with them. And this current trend of punishment to 'take away their devices...'. Well, you should not have given them these in the first place!

So much more swearing in general. You've only got to look at mumsnet.
They don't really have any standards.
Social media and phones haven't helped either.
I see there are also support groups for parents who are beaten and abused by their children.
Can't imagine that years ago.

Yep same.

Thing is, they weren't like that with every teacher. The ones who they thought were cool or scary were treated very differently.

A lot of kids will treat you like crap if they think you're a pushover and they don't really like you.

Denial? I asked you a question!

Where I grew up if you’d made mischief you could count on your mum having been phoned by his knows how many other mums before you even walked in the door. You absolutely didn’t want to see that face.

Similarly, on the first day of term your mum would say “do not make me come up that school”. This was at a time where you’d routinely have classes +30. Yes, there would always be a couple that would give backchat a try, but a punishment (no corporal by then) meant seeing it through and was backed up by the whole staff and your mum got a letter. Handing one of those over meant serious trouble on your head.

My parents, and others like them, wanted their children to do better than them. Doing well at school was seen as a top priority. This wasn’t an affluent community, but teachers were respected in the same vein as the GP and the local policeman.

But that’s my point. There is a world of difference between “children and adults should stand for someone who needs a seat more than them” which I have been telling my kids since they were 1, and “get out of the seat for an adult, children should stand” which is the attitude some of the posters here are professing.

If we had an inkling someone needed a seat more than us, both I and my kids would be on our feet. Genuinely, though, why should we be standing up for an able bodied adult? One of my kids has a disability, you wouldn’t necessarily be able to tell which one, so I know all about invisible disabilities.

Honestly, respect goes both ways.

DD had her friend stay over at our house for the first time when they were around 7. Her friend said to DD the next day that I was "really strict" that she didn't like it when I asked them to brush their teeth before bed.😄

Sadly, I think this behaviour has become normalised now and it’s not helped by adults who greenlight this behaviour.

i don’t work in a school, but we own land and are having problems with antisocial behaviour - trespass, fires being lit and gates broken.
I came home from collecting my own children from school to find local teenagers (in school uniform) were in a field and had started a bonfire.

When I’ve raised this on the local Facebook, I’ve been told ‘get a &&kkin life’ and have been told I’m selfish etc.

The First World War do you think???? Where probably at least quarter of the school , will have lost brothers, fathers or someone that they knew

completely agree , I forgot about the time a male member of staff was trying to get a group of kids out of the shop and one girl started shouting about him touching her, he obviously didn’t, he was about a foot behind her and we also have good cctv, even so mud sticks.

I see a 13yr old girl and 15 yr old boy , have been found guilty of the manslaughter of an 80yr old dog walker

Yes they do.

My dc are teenagers and when younger, spent a lot of time travelling with me on trains to visit my parents. On a busy train, if adults are standing, small child sits on adults lap.

Many times me and both dc would share a 2 seater so that adults could sit. It is about teaching children to be considerate of the needs of others. That wants do not come before needs.

I would also expect my healthy, robust teenagers to give up their seats for those less able to stand if needed. As would I.

Some will have learnt this at home, others will be trying to fit in with their peers.

Even when I was at school over 30 years ago there were kids who I knew came from homes that taught them to be respectful and polite, who would drop that at school or risk having the piss taken out of them constantly.

I was incredibly well behaved and compliant, but even I put on a bit of attitude when being sent to our head of year to be told off in front of his whole class for something out of my control. Unfortunately I cry easily so it was attitude or cry and exacerbate the bullying I was already experiencing.

She made you spoilt entitled and using flowery language like that nonsensical post to disguise it.

Your own mum didn't want you sitting in her lap ...dear god