To think when you’ve experienced a good private school…

[B100000]

It’s really hard to accept your dc will have to be in state?

We can’t afford private at the moment, not just the VAT but in general. Things may change but we’ve been looking round state schools recently and I’m finding it so hard to accept that my ds will be in this environment. Before I get slammed with criticism on here, I am not at all wishing my ds wasn’t mixing with a wider range of society… that’s actually the one positive about him going to a state school. But I’m sad he will be in crumbling classrooms, limited facilities, huge classes. All the things I was lucky enough not to experience. Even the food is vastly different, again I’m not saying the food is bad at state but I feel I had so much more growing up than ds will.

this isn’t a state slamming thread. I know a good education can be achieved there. I just feel I’m letting my ds down when I had such a brilliant school environment, and there’s nothing I can do to change this for him.

Yanbu to feel how you feel. I didn't go to private and was a state teacher for many years but the current situation in state secondaries makes me very worried for my children's education. We only have 1 state in our area and it's awful. It's the one I went to as a child and have since worked there (local authority senco work) and it's just as bad if not worse.
Seriously considering moving to somewhere with a better option but that would involve new house, new jobs with less money. Weighing up the impact of this on their life.

@User415373 thanks for the solidarity. We have thought about moving house too but it’s just not feasible. We are close to family here so moving would also uproot ds on that front too. I just wish more care was given to education in this country. The state schools near us are ok but they are so so far from the private options.

I know how you feel OP. I went to a very small state grammar in the 80s.

We had dedicated labs for biology and chemistry, music rooms and dance studio. We had cricket, hockey & rugby pitches, and enough tennis courts for the whole year, a swimming pool, a gym, a huge library and home economics kitchens. We learnt Latin and had a choice of four MFL.

Our local state can only offer German to years 7,8 and 9 and seemed offended when I queried it. No library, only a football pitch.

Thankfully my ds got a scholarship to a local independent or I'd have spent the next 40 years feeling guilty. It's rotten that anyone should feel this way.

Our two eldest are at our standard ‘outstanding’ state school (Y10, Y12). Child 3 moved to private due to being failed with SEN in mainstream. Now year 8. The state school is just a much, much worse education. The youngest is much more confident, has fun, loves life, is thriving academically. The older two are morose, loathe school, hate the violent, aggressive atmosphere. We feel so guilty about our choices. There is no way we can afford to move the older two to private though.

I went to a rough, failing comp and thought my kids would be ok but it seems the standard of state schooling has plummeted since then.

Yes I think that is the sad thing that the atmosphere feels aggressive @Bluecheesebonkers even in the primary schools which has really surprised me. I think it is a product of not enough staff, despite the teachers really trying their best they are unable to actually focus on teaching.

@Meadowfinch i agree the schools have very much changed sadly for the worse. I worry about what they will look like when ds is in secondary. It worries me so much but we have no choice anymore as cannot afford an alternative

It's OK to feel your feelings, OP, but you're better off focussing on the positives and not wallowing. Your children deserve positively and enthusiasm from you – so time to get over it and get on with it.

We moved house - DH and I were at prep and then boarding schools and when I looked at the state options where we were living at the time, I just thought we would be letting them down. So, we moved, and bet on them getting into grammar schools - which they have all done, and have all thrived (so far - two are at uni, 2 heading towards the end of their school years).

We are very lucky with the boys' school - it is essentially a private school we don't pay for - i.e. there is currently a cricket tour in the Middle East, an economics trip to Europe, DS2 went to China in Feb, and DS3 on the skiing trip. They fence, they play rugby against the big local private schools, they have incredible music, drama and sport departments, and as a PTA we raise between £40 - 60k a year from events which helps to supplement the facilities and things. They do very well academically and have a strong Oxbridge success rate for their size - but it has also just been voted as being in the Top 10 happiest schools in the country - which to my mind is FAR more important. My daughter's grammar is often in the 'top state schools in the country' academically, but they don't offer the same 'all round' education as the boys' school IMO.

So, in short YANBU and I completely empathise with how you feel. However,being positive - if you aren't paying huge fees, then you can do other things to help - tutor, travel, music/drama/sport lessons, riding, skiing, etc and improve their cultural capital outside of school with stuff that they won't be necessarily doing at school. And I do think that with the coming economic turmoil and the price of fees, it really will be the preserve of the uber wealthy, and with increasing numbers of engaged and supportive parents in the system, who knows what my happen to standards....?!

I got a second job to keep my kids out of the local schools. So did DH. We were like ships that passed in the night for two years while we built a business.

if you break down the cost of private week on week, it’s quite feasible if you both earn extra money.

My DDs were the first in the family to go to a normal Comprehensive school. Previous generations went to private (including boarding) and Grammar schools.

The negative... less subjects at KS3... we did art and music year round, French, German and Latin, DT all year round... their school has just lost their last French teacher, meaning only Spanish for KS3, art, music and technology on a rotation with dance etc.

But I definitely say their teachers are better. Ours just expected us to understand. Theirs explain it. The range of subjects at KS4 are wider... they do stuff like Construction and hospitality along side the "traditional" subjects like history or computing. They have quite good sports facilities, and an outdoor education programme, but I think that's an advantage of a rural school more than anything.. a city centre school won't have its own camping field whether its a private school or state realistically. However those sports facilities definitely don't have a patch on the local Private school with their pavilion or swimming pool.... They do a wide range of sports though... and boys and girls do the same sports, just separately. Their class sizes are also smaller... we had 32, they usually have 25 in a class. Their school musicals are amazing.

The buildings definitely look tired.

Mine were lucky with Primary... they were at Army schools which have smaller class sizes (usually less than 20). But when wer moved back to the UK it was noticeable how stretched the teachers were. Hard working, extremely capable.. . But they are just one person.

I went to a state school but I can imagine how you feel. My children have almost finished their education but I would be worried - particularly about secondary - if they were just starting out. I worked in the secondary school my children attended (support role) and saw plummeting behaviour and increasing numbers of supply teachers as disillusioned staff left. I think my older child’s experience was acceptable if not ‘all bells and whistles’. However, the disruption my younger DC was subjected to was awful and I saw them getting more and more withdrawn. We were lucky enough to be able to afford private school from year 9 for younger DC and it has been money well spent. Not necessarily for the education (there are smaller classes but they still suffer staff shortages) or the enrichment (which DC doesn’t largely bother with) but for the general lack of bad behaviour (although there are still issues - ie theft happens and there are drugs). I would say DC has the same kind of experience I had at my state school.

The Labour Party spouts about making state schools better with the VAT money from private schools. But it’s not enough. Behaviour is the root cause of problems and it needs a societal solution.

I now work in a state primary which I would be happy for my DC to attend. Although primary is important as a springboard, parents are more readily able to support their children with their learning. There are some children who exhibit bad behaviour but they are much less ‘scary’ (for a want of a better word). Secondary schools need intervention NOW. There also needs to be a huge investment in SEN provision.

I think it’s worth thinking about what private education DOESN’T give you - I went to a top end private school, DH went to a low end state school and has very few qualifications

Unusually, we chose to not send our kids to private school, even though we could afford it

This is because, on balance, my husband left school far more happy and confident than I did. In our younger years, this meant he was much more able than I was to navigate through life. By this I mean understanding what it takes to get on with people, vs just chasing qualifications, which was very much the focus of my education. I always felt the difference between my frame of reference vs most people I’ve since encountered in the world of work over the last 25+ years

the approach we take with our DC is that we send them to local schools and spend a fraction of the cost of private schooling for them both on extra activities, some tutoring and having a generally nice family life

So far, this has yielded some two very happy and balanced children with great exam results, now nearing the end of their time at school. We don’t live near amazing schools - these are just standard local comprehensives.

There are plenty of ways to make it work - it did feel odd to me but have since broken those feelings down into being as a result of state school always being portrayed as terrifying (Grange Hill!) and me wanting the same for my kids as I had.

My child's state school has most of what you said your private does and we're in a deprived, rural area. I guess it's just the luck of the draw? Modern building with great sports facilities including dance studios and climbing wall! Really good science labs, computer rooms, music rooms and library. I honestly couldn't ask for more. It's not perfect but it's a good school and my son who has SEN and an EHCP has been brilliantly supported and is heading towards some great GCSEs. I think private vs state is too simplistic.

I assume your children don’t feel an undercurrent of violence in their secondary? If so you are extremely lucky!

There was a massive amount of violence at my private school. Beatings, burns, bullying etc

Don't assume that private = safe

I'm about to post here and ds is 21... which I guess makes his education 'back in the day'. All I can say is that there were worries about state education then, some justified, some not. I'd never want to stop trying to improve things in all schools.

But ds has done more than fine. He is in an environment now with a lot of privately educated peers and does say he wishes he'd had more extracurricular options in sport at school - that was a weakness despite going to external clubs. But that's all he says. I kind of feel lucky we could never have afforded it. I did look at applying for full bursaries to one school but decided it was too risky and uncertain to go that way as we hadn't any chance of earning more if he lost the bursary.

Do the things that you know you will do. Get into the PTA, work on raising money, get to know the teachers. Do the extracurriculars. Life isn't perfect but you'll get by.

I think perhaps it is location then - where I live DS school has new buildings etc, a football development programme where they focus on coaching skills etc and have just done a drama play

another local school has a football programme with the women’s football team and a good dance set up, another school has a boys football team for sixth form

but I think we are quite lucky

@Didimum im trying. I know there will be some positives I am just struggling with comparing with what is round the corner and so totally out of reach for us. I really thought the schools would be in better shape and I am so worried for the future. You are right though, I can’t let this show to ds

@Tiswa where is this if you don’t mind me asking? We are in the midlands, there are a couple of schools people say are good around an hour or so from us, but lots more that have a lot of problems even at primary level sadly

@PermanentTemporary thank you

@Potsofpetals honestly we have looked at everything. We actually started a fund before I was pregnant to put towards the monthly cost but managed to only get to around 45k. We have really tried and have had to accept it is out of reach.

I'm pretty sure there were schools in the 80s that were a bit rubbish too! My son's state comprehensive school has new dedicated science labs, refitted two years ago. It has cricket, rugby and hockey pitches, arrangements to access six newly refurbished tennis courts in the public park opposite and keeps two boats at the rowing club five minutes walk away. There's a gym, two sports halls, a library, kitchens and workshops for CDT/technology lessons, dedicated music rooms with a newly-installed recording studio and brand new computer facilities for writing, editing and remixing music. Okay, so there's no pool and the pupils only have a choice of three modern foreign languages and no latin, but that's a pretty niche interest these days.

It's well worth investigating the state of local schools when choosing where to live and start a family, as there is admittedly wide variation between state schools. I taught science until a few years ago and the lab I had was in a much worse state than the redundant labs my son's school is temporarily using as overflow classrooms for other subjects (they'll be stripping the fittings out over the summer holidays).

I think it depends on the school. My kids are at a secondary where there is zero tolerance of bad behaviour, it is one of the ‘super strict’ approaches (walking single file, no talking, etc…) and it does have results. Not all kids suit it but it’s good for my kids. There is the occasional fight but I do not believe that there is not fighting going on in private ever (I know for a fact there can be horrific bullying/drug issues!).

But we wwre lucky this was our catchment school, the other local school there was no way my kids were attending it. I would have got a second job to send them to private!!!

Your area might be particularly bad, OP. The midlands, unfortunately, is a region that shows consistently poor educational outcomes compared to many other regions in the UK. I have live across three counties in the past eight years and the schools have generally all been very good. In my kids' currently primary, they are in a class of 22, they both have music lessons and plenty of trips. The secondary school they will attend had a top-notch auditorium and brilliant sports facilities too.

Surrey/London borders so you have the grammar system of the Sutton Grammars and Tiffin, 2 single sex schools that used to be Epsom Grammars and a couple of other really good schools.
So Fulham and Chelsea both run football academies (Chelsea is women’s given how good the team is)

quite a few still have working PTA associations (all the grammars plus the single sex schools do) which helps with fundraising

DD went through Grammar and will join the all boys school in mixed sixth form in September.

DS had a pick of 3 schools so we could go with the one that suited him - I will say the choice suited him though and his friends went to different ones

I totally get where you’re coming from @B100000 , I felt exactly the same when my DCs were heading for our local state secondary.

All I can say it that I have a completely different perspective on what I was worried about now that we are many years in to the state secondary experience. Whilst there is no doubt that they do not get access to some of the facilities and experiences that paying for a private education would have allowed, we have been incredibly fortunate to have an excellent state secondary school near us and I am very, very glad that they have been there instead.

They have been involved in way more extra curricular stuff than I had anticipated and the general quality of teaching has been superb, certainly a lot better in many instances than some of the teaching at the private school I went to (despite it being highly regarded - reputation and very bright kids can hide sub-par provision in all sorts of ways). Behaviour is nothing like the kind of state-school horror stories that are often bandied around.

I know we’ve been really lucky and not all schools are like this, but I guess what I’m saying is that your fears may not reflect the reality of being at a state school. I realised that a lot of my fears were about what I imagined the experience would be and what I thought would be important, as I only had my own private experience to go by. The handful of things that my DC have missed out on are vastly outweighed by the benefits of the educational experience they’ve had, so it’s not inevitable that going to a state school is the lesser option.