To ask a parent to move their buggy from a café so I can sit down?

[TheUmberFawn]

Went to a busy café at lunchtime. One table was occupied by a mum with a large pram taking up the space of two chairs. There were no other free tables, so I asked politely if she could move it so I could sit. She gave me a dirty look and mumbled something about needing space. I get that babies come with stuff but why should that mean no one else can sit? AIBU for asking?

Also, just realised you thread title says move her buggy FROM a cafe. So what, you expected her to park it outside?

This happened to me but the person (an older man), didn’t ask, they sat down on the empty chair that was across from me (the stroller parallel to me). I said, “Hey, I’m using this table.” He didn’t budge. There were plenty of other tables free very close by too. It upset me. It was a rare time my baby was calm and I was able to find some enjoyment in finally stepping out and having a coffee with my baby in the shops. I had to shuffle out of the seat, coffee unfinished because it interfered with my good time.

OP, I am not a fan of you asking this woman to use her table maybe she also finally only got a chance to step out. YABU.

Unreasonable.

Why did you choose the woman with a buggy? Why would you ask someone to move their buggy so that you can sit on their table.

Sure, if the buggy was in the way of another table, and it was obstructing your chair - I get it. But you should always ask before you table share. But I always find people that do annoying, whenever that has happened to me they ask whilst taking a seat - so no isn’t an option even if it is bloody awkward sitting across a stranger whilst trying to have your coffee.

You should have waited until a table was available - queue up if you have to - someone would have left eventually.

I think its very forward, unusual and intrusive for anyone to join a table of a stranger. Presumably when you entered the cafe you were aware of the capacity so customers already seated do not have to accomodate you on your presumptions. Many people are introverted, anxious, struggling with personal problems or simply feel uncomfortable with people they dont know... and thats perfectly within their right to not be forced into an awkward social situation for them. If it were a chair being used for her bags, like some do on crowded buses (i do find that unfair because its a moving vehicle and safety is priority over comfortability) i would probably even take that as a clear signal for personal space or another person joining them. But to ask to move a baby is not okay. If it were an older child she had the seat would still be occupied but theyd be sitting on the chair not the pram. Its not an object, its a small human being.

The age of the child or ability to sit up in a highchair or without support is irrelevant. You stated it was a 2 person table, their were two people there whether they were on a chair, in a highchair or standing at the end of their table to eat.... my son is perfectly able to sit but hes also non verbal and has asd and even when he was small and not a flight risk it was extremely difficult to regulate and keep him level in a highchair without things being thrown, screaming meltdowns. But if we kept him in his buggy he felt secure and safe, can smell his familiar home scents and will be a much easier child in a public setting. You dont know peoples lives and its incredibly trivial to mention in general conversation let alone make a post about it. You were thoughtless and i hope that lady hasnt had any stress and anxiety over a non issue.

Sorry OP but you did ask - you were being very unreasonable. She was at a small 2 person table taken up by 2 people and their belongings, pram included. Asking to share a larger 4 person table that's being used by 1 person in an otherwise busy cafe with no other seats - fine. But asking a person to move their pram in this situation so that you could cram up onto a small 2 person table (not asking if you could share the table as that wasn't what you did going by your description) is massively unreasonable. If its one of those small 2 person round tables then you likely invaded her perosnal space. It's strange and you just don't do that. She probably thought you were a bit of an oddball. Sorry I don't mean to be rude but you did ask.

Personally I would have noted that the cafe was very busy and not gone in that café. If I had been the mum I would have felt unable to say no as the baby wasn't actually using the chair....I don't think you can act like you have booked the table, it's just somewhere to park yourself and have a coffee. It's not anyone else's concern really what kind of day she was having but have some sensitivity.
I'd rather buy a meal deal and make a picnic of it than go in an awkwardly crowded café at peak time.

A two person table is usually small and her pram needed to he near her, it's also not a case of "she could have folded it" as prams have lots of things on and under them so need to be empty to fold up. If she emptied her pram of presumably a nappy bag etc then where would she have put that in a rammed cafe?

That small a table too, would be tricky to share anyway let alone when she might needed to get out bottles and bottle warmer, or baby food etc, wipes, all sorts of the myriad things that come with bringing a baby outdoors for a while. She needed and was entitled to the space as first one there.

You were being unreasonable. You asked a question which would lead to the inconvenience of someone and her showing that inconvenience is perfectly reasonable.

I disagree that it’s ‘not unusual’ to share a table in a busy cafe. I go to cafes all the time and never once have I seen a stranger join someone else’s table. That’s a really odd thing to do IMO. If tables were all taken, most people would either go elsewhere or wait until a table becomes free. I’m not surprised she was put out.

I avoid the sort of cafes now where being asked to share an already tiny two person table is becoming more common (eg Prets in London) - especially as I have a baby too with a pram and loads of her gear under it. It’s really not as easy as just putting down most prams, even travel ones which tend to be fully loaded underneath. Mine needs both hands despite being marketed as one hand fold down so the stranger would have to hold my baby(!) which I wouldn’t want.

It’s also really unpleasant sharing a two person table with a noisy eater or hot drink slurper, especially running on about three hours’ sleep as a new mum - speaking from experience! Fair enough if it’s on the more communal benches and someone is sitting pretty close but the usual round tables are far too small.

There’s also breastfeeding to consider. It took me ages to feed confidently in public. I think I’d have left to feed. For new mums and even not so new mums, going out for a coffee can be the highlight of their day or even a few days. I say let them enjoy the 20 mins or so without having to share.

It's not surprising that people are horrified at the thought of sharing a table with a stranger given this is the place where people don't open the door or cry and shake if they have to answer the phone 😆 I'm guessing if the place was crowded that there wasn't anywhere for her to really move, so for that reason YABU but if you're not used to lugging around a huge pram (I've always had a small one myself) then I think you can be forgiven. It's amazing how much crap you have with you when you have a young baby.

Yes it’s unreasonable to expect someone to share a two person table with you. It’s her table she entitled to sit alone. Honestly would you have done the same to a man? Or if three people were sat at a table of four would you have asked to join them? I would have felt intimidated by this.

Op wrote: Just to clarify - it was a two-person table and she was sitting at one chair with her pram parked where the second chair would be.

I didn’t get a close look at the baby’s age but it wasn’t a newborn - looked more like a baby who could sit up with support. There were high chairs available, so I assumed the pram could have been moved or folded to make space.

Clearly the baby was still in the pram. And if baby was able to sit in a high chair then they would have been taking up that second seat at the table and there still would not have been any spare space at the table for Op to sit there. Because it was a table for two.

What the Op is actually suggesting is the mum should get rid of the baby so that she could share the table with a stranger. That is extremely unreasonable, illogical and discriminatory. Babies are people too and have every right to be sat at the table with their parent.

FWIW babies start to be able to sit up without support anywhere between 4 months to six months old. If they need to be supported sitting up they cannot be put in a high chair. So, it is irrelevant if the baby was a newborn or not.

I'm not sure why you say there was no 'other' free table. This wasn't a free table either!

You can't possibly know whether the baby was old enough to sit up alone, and even if they were that would mean they needed a highchair, so either a pram or a highchair need to be next to the table. So even if she's moved it she would need to put a highchair there instead? It's not practical or safe to expect her to hold the baby the entire time if she is on her own. She needs somewhere close at hand for the baby to be out down. She probably can't easily fold the buggy while holding the baby either, especially if she has bags etc on it to sort out too. Also, as I remember it suitability of cafe high chairs for different age babies varied a lot. Some are more suitable for toddler if not much support or leg strap. My dd slid out of one once so I was very careful about which I chose to put her in after that!

You describe it as a table for two and there were two people at it. Ok the baby probably wasn't buying anything but the baby stage is hard so I think it's considerate to allow the mother the space she needs. Different if she was taking up a table for 4 or 6 on her own maybe. Was there really no other table with one free seat? I don't think I'd have chosen a cafe that looked that busy if I wasn't prepared to wait for someone to leave.

Why don't people fold their pushchairs anymore. Even getting on the bus no-one does it. You used to have to years ago.
It's like I've got a baby in a pushchair so I have the right to as much space as I want. It's like a land grab on the buses and they stick out and god forbid if you ask the mum to move the push chair if you want to get by.

Yabu. No one wants to a stranger at their table. She was perfectly entitled to use up that space with a baby, which you seem miffed about. I've had it done to me while watching my kids on a picnic table at the park and felt it was polite to let her sit there but really I should have said no. I didn't feel well and just wanted a minute to myself. You were very rude.

It's not always that easy when you're alone with a non walking baby and other small kids. It's virtually impossible to fold a pram one handed while holding a baby and keeping hold of all your other belongings.

Those saying it is normal to share a tiny 2 person table with a stranger - it really isn't!

Because if you are on your own with a baby it is not possible to put the baby down somewhere (A table? A dirty bus floor?) and fold the buggy and then put it up again. What are you meant to? Hand the baby to a stranger while you fold it?

I was thinking that. I’d have to take off the seat unit, take anything out of the basket underneath, balance the seat unit carefully against the chassis, along with any shopping… yeah that’s a hard no.

It’s a bit redundant now as OP has lost their mind but YABU. Woman was at a table for 2 and there was 2 of them, her and her baby. There wasn’t space for you.

I live in a pretty friendly part of the north and it’s still considered weird and rude here to expect to share someone else’s table in a cafe regardless of how busy it is. YABU!

If it were a ‘street food’ type set up with long benches or a long breakfast bar that would be slightly different and I’d say you’d be fine to sit yourself down but to walk up to a young mum on a two person table and ask her to shift her pram so you can sit at her table with her…I think she was reserved to only give you a dirty look tbh. You’re edging into full blown CF territory!

You used to be able to fold a big push chair. It's just that nobody wants to try these days.

It’s not.

Really really weird to expect her to move all her stuff so you can sit down at the table she’s already using!

Why would you have to fold a pram in a cafe at your own table? There was room to get passed, she wasn’t blocking the cafe, she was preventing the OP from sitting at the table that she was already using!
In a cafe I usually pop my baby back down in the pram when I need 2 hands or to give them a snack if there’s no highchair etc.
In this case we don’t know if the baby was old enough for a highchair, but she wasn’t taking up any additional space than if she was using a highchair for the baby.