To have cut off my friend who stayed in an abusive marriage

[TheIvyRestaurant]

I had a friend, let’s call her Kate - she met a man about 12 years ago and got pregnant very quickly, after 3 months. They decided to make a go of it, and from about mid-way through her pregnancy I noticed his red flag behaviour. Then things got worse when she had the baby and he moved in. They then had another DD about 2 years later and they got married a few years after that. I could give hundreds of examples of how he was emotionally abusive but here are a few:

• Kate was “allowed” to come out for drinks with me (I eventually was her only friend as he alienated her from so many people) but only during the day - she had to be back at 6pm so she could do bedtime as he couldn’t cope apparently. I’m not talking babies - this is when their DDs were 6 and 8. One night we were having so much fun we lost track of time and realised it was 6.15pm. She had 9 texts from him saying she had “failed at her task” and “failed as a parent” because “you know that I can’t do bedtimes so the girls are now going to be up really late thanks to you putting yourself first”.
• She had to go term time only at work because he can’t look after his own children for full days while she works, it triggers his PTSD. Meaning she had a lot less money. He also insisted on keeping their finances seperate, so whilst he stayed full time and would buy £900 TVs and an e scooter, she would have to forgo buying lunch at work because her salary dropped so much.
• During lockdown, things ramped up - he was beyond nasty and would text her from other rooms of the house saying “Tell those kids to STFU before lose my shit at you all” and “Can you put some clothes on, it makes me want to vomit seeing you in pyjamas during the day” and “You’d better be doing home schooling with them, if they’re then out to be thick kids it will be your fault”. He couldn’t home schooling apparently, it triggered his PTAD. She would text me these screenshots on a daily basis.
• One time we went to a local concert, and she decided she’d stay out for a drink after and stand up to him. He wasn’t happy and was demanding she come home but she put her phone in her bag. A few hours later, she checked her phone to find 67 missed calls and the ring doorbell showed paramedics at their door. He called 999 saying he thinks he has sepsis. He didn’t, and they soon left. But he spent months saying the stress she caused by staying out brought on sepsis like symptoms.
• He’d really have a go at her parenting. All the time. She’s an AMAZING mum, but if she didn’t have things 100% organised (like literally every mum on the planet) he’d go nuts. I was round once and he said “The girls want to go in the garden where are their hats?”. Because she didn’t instantly know and had to look in various cupboards and coat pockets, he really went at her saying “Smart mother you are - don’t even know where their clothes are”. I pointed out “Well neither do you” and the look her gave me terrified me to the point I left after that.
• Me and her went away with all our kids to a theme park hotel for the night and he was texting her having a go about her parenting - the kids weren’t even there! He’s obsessed with her “failing”. “I gave you a new routine and you failed at it. You left the house 15 minutes after we agreed. FAILED”.
• Her DDs eventually started treating her like shit. If they wanted her from another room they’d shout “Kate! Get here RIGHT NOW”. She said it’s because that’s how her DH speaks to her and they were copying

I spent a lot of personal time and energy worrying about my friend. I told her from early on to leave him, not to marry him, that’s she can do better and she’s a shell of her former self. Eventually, after another text simply saying “Guess what your latest fail has been? Go on take a guess.” (she forgot to turn the dishwasher on and he had nothing to eat his food on which apparently triggered his PTSD) she told me she wants to leave him. I supported her for the next 3 months. I did all sorts - looked around rentals on her behalf (he was NEVER gonna leave the house of his own accord and she didn’t want police involvement). Researched cheap items to but for a new kitchen. Researched women’s groups and charities that support single mums. Spent hours pouring over her rights and how to claim maintenance and the pitfalls she might encounter. Researching the cheapest forms of divorce. None of this she could do herself in case he checked her phone or caught her.

I did it to the detriment of spending time with my own kids and DH. My DH at this point was supportive but said i was too involved and it’s not my job, and pointed out my friend would post “we are such a happy family” type posts on social media and he assured me “she’s never gonna leave him you’re wasting your time”. We once fell out about it. But I persevered and was determined to get her out of there.

My uncle is a landlord and I asked him a favour to rent her a 2 bed property for a while at a cheap rate until she could find something more suitable. He agreed, letting down the person he promised it to. I was grateful and my friend was delighted she had a place to escape to.

A week before she was due to move in (she’d signed a tenancy agreement) she asked to meet me for lunch. She told me that I had been encouraging her to leave her husband for too long, pushing her into doing it and she didn’t like it and I was to stop. Because she loved him and wasn’t leaving. I asked her if her DH was making her say these things and she said “no”. I’m not sure if this is true. She said we can still be friends but I have to stop this “vendetta” against her DH.

A few days later, still heartbroken, I decided I’d had enough and her marriage had imposed too much on my own life. With DH’s support I texted her to say I couldn’t be her friend anymore. She had gaslighted me, and taken me for granted and she was on her own. I then blocked her on everything and haven’t seen her since. Luckily my uncle was v understanding and didn’t pursue her for her contractual obligations.

That was 3 years ago. I don’t talk about it because I feel so bruised emotionally from it and I tell people we drifted apart. We then moved away shortly after that (for different reasons) which made the cut-off easier.

Anyway caught up with my mum today and she said “You haven’t spoken about Kate in ages. You used to mention her all the time”. I told her the whole story.

I’ve come away feeling sick with guilt. My mum made me feel really awful - said I shouldn’t have given up on my friend and I should have bided my time before bringing it up again. That “That poor woman and those 2 girls are stuck with that vile man and you’re doing nothing about it”. My mum was in an abusive marriage (albeit a violent one as well) and said “so called friends like me” who bolted when her stories became too much are people she will never forgive or forget. That of you know bad things are happening it’s your obligation to stop them, and I gave up too soon.

FWIW. DH looks now and again on social media and Kate and her DH are still together.

I now feel so guilty and confused and second guessing my decision I was otherwise so sure about for 3 years. Please tell me MN honestly - WIBU to cut Kate off? Should I try and reach out to her? My mum gave me a new perspective and I honestly feel sick with what I did.

It’s incredibly hard to support a victim of domestic abuse who feels unable to leave the abusive relationship. I think you need to be less hard on both yourself and Kate.

its difficult to describe the fear and barriers victims face when considering leaving. The abuse cripples their ability to see things clearly, take agency over their own life and believe they can actually accomplish it, and the fear is also very real - victims are lost at risk when leaving and this is when most domestic homicides happen. The cognitive dissonance between knowing their relationship is not right and they’re unhappy versus the fear of leaving is highly distressing and victims who feel unable to leave can weave an elaborate story around why they have to stay (because “love”, because “it’s best for the children” etc) in Norse to make it bearable. That’s why Kate gave that account to you and deep down she probably feels awful throwing that back in your face. However, the consequences of you walking away don’t feel as immediately threatening/overwhelming as leaving her H so this was never a contest you were going to win. He is drip feeding in her ear daily, while you were only able to counter it when you met or with the occasional message. Please don’t take it personally - it was always about them not you.

All that said, you shouldn’t feel guilt at walking away. The number one rule of you’re going to maintain a relationship with someone who’s in an abusive partnership is boundaries. And they’re hard to maintain with an abuse victim as they have a poor concept of boundaries on account of having their own constantly overridden. Never give more of yourself than you’re prepared to have ignored. It can be soul destroying. You had to walk away to protect yourself and that’s ok. Forgive yourself for it. You can’t change the past and go back to a point where you could give a little less and maybe continue the relationship. What’s happened has happened and while it’s sad for Kate you have to put yourself and your own family first.

I can totally see why you backed away for your own sanity op, especially given this update/explanation.

Gosh, what a sad situation. I think it's clear that both of you were struggling. Your conscious intentions were obviously to help your friend but the truth is that putting ourselves in the role of saviour is always done as a way of trying to help ourselves. You wanted that sense of purpose, significance, value in your friend's life, and maybe the boost to your self esteem for being the person who saved someone. Perhaps also it was a good distraction from the traumas you were experiencing in your own life.

It's unfortunate that your friend then had to deal with being the object of these saviour fantasies. It sounds like she wasn't ready to leave and felt too trapped and pressured. She couldn't push back and voice her frustrations to her partner but she could to you.

That wasn't kind of her. But she was not in a place where she was capable of doing more. You'd pushed her too far and she needed it to stop.

I think your reaction was based on feeling humiliated - because in a way she had seen through you and exposed your motives as being more about you than her, which made you feel ashamed and exposed. Your angry message and ending the friendship came from those feelings, which is probably why you still feel a bit uneasy about it. But ultimately you weren't in a position to give her the kind of friendship she needed - you needed to be a saviour and she needed you to be a safe person instead. So ending the friendship was probably ultimately best for both of you.

I think these situations are complex. Neither of you are bad people. You were both just acting out of your unresolved trauma.

The best thing to do is what you're doing now - reflection and learning and taking responsibility so the experience can be alchemised into wisdom. It's a painful process, and my advice would be to try not to avoid the pain. Confronting ourselves as we are is excruciating but the alternative is painful in a different way.

Iv been you OP. Years and years of listening to awful stories, all time together devoted to hearing how sad their relationship makes them, their plans to leave and it would be great if you helped them, it never ends.
My friend went from a horrific DV relationship ( been to court as witness to his violence towards 5 months old baby, her and me. she stood up for him in court to say great guy....)
Them straight into a lesser, more actions/words abusive relationship which to her mind is amazing, but still every action, story is still upsetting to hear. Towards the end of our relationship she would veer between leaving him (got a flat, but he wouldnt allow his child to live there, but also wouldn't watch his own child so she maybe spent 1 full night there ( stopping others from having such a safe space) kept flat in for ages just in case...
I kept pulling back from hearing anymore stories from her, tried to talk about important things happening to me, no interest. When relationship finally broke I was so glad, I was exhausted by her, she used time with me to express anger, she was falling out with everyone friends/family/strangers over nothing but full of venom.
Our final "chat" was her telling me how I tried to control her, I made her uncomfortable (yeah kinda made me feel like I was creepy about her, being so invested, did I fancy her? ) she was sick of hearing my opinion on her relationship, it's too evasive. when I pointed out I had shown literally no interest in her partner, never asked after him, how did I know all about his latest behaviour? She denied everything having a problem or talking bad about him???
A lot of others around her felt the same wrath and social media full of how let down she felt by everyone trying to betray her, get something from her , she's just glad she has him for support! Whilst cutting ties with a family who had been nothing but supportive.
This was a friendship spanning over 30 years, I had provided support as in listening, being actual safe house to run to multiple time, paid for every night out/meal, her make up as she never had money, would come out with £10 in purse at most.
It's not enough, never will be as I totally understand the trauma she's been through, I know she lying to everyone to just survive, I understand the feeling she's stuck yet again in a abusive relationship.
But she was the one endlessly talking about leaving, getting better work, changing her life, as a friend you want to help but it's so draining. Hourly long calls daily just moaning, I became an outlet for her sadness and that's how your seen, a reminder of the bad bits and they resent you too.
Years ago after the first DV relationship she said she knew what she was doing by leaving partner and going back, she understood how awful it was for her family to watch but kept making that decision, so whatever keeps drawing her back is beyond something I can deal with, which is such a shame.
So when she blocked me in a fit of anger, I did the same and just left it and the relief was amazing, I have better boundaries with friends now, but noone else has ever been near pushing them. My nights out are cheaper, fun and I come home happy rather than worried about possible outcomes for her.
I'm sure she's still stuck in that rut, maybe if her sounding board has left she actually can talk to partner, maybe life's better for her too, I hope so. I hope she does well in life and finds peace. I did and still do love her, I think she knows that too

This.

Her reaction after you helped her leave her abusive husband was very unfair to you.

as others have said, you can only help those who want to be helped.
Clearly shes broken by him and its sad, but you have absolutely gone above and beyond. You handed her an escape route on a plate, after years of listening and crying with her. She then threw it all in your face, painting you as almost an agressor with a vendetta against her lovely man.
Whatever her reasons, or whether hes behind it, you dont deserve that.
I think you tried to help too much.
Seeing your mums response, its easy to see why you dont feel clear on boundaries. Honestly, how dare your mum put that on you!!

Just cut off with someone for the same reasons. Some people just don't want to be helped and it becomes very draining.

Once again - I was there, you were not. It was gaslighting. I heard the words and tone and intent and the belittling. The fact it was done by a DA victim is neither here nor there. The only “dictionary difference” is the “prolonged period of time”. And besides isn’t it all just semantics - she was cruel, and lied, and tried to convince me it was all on my head. Call it gaslighting or something else, but it was nasty behaviour.

Of course I was angry she didn’t leave after I’d gone to so much effort and she said she was ready to even having signed a tenancy agreement with my uncle. How was I supposed to feel? I did show her this as I was too shocked at the gaslighting/whatever appropriate term you’d call it. But yes I was angry.

I don’t know if it’s because you obviously carry some guilt over how it ended and maybe believing that you were being gaslit makes you feel vindicated somewhat in your actions….?

No I feel gaslit because I was gaslit. I will die on this hill TBH - I was there and I experienced the hurt and pain. I know what it was.

If you couldn’t cope with offering support then you were right to withdraw.

I COULD cope with offering support. I spent year after year offering it. What I couldn’t cope with is having it so cruelly thrown back in my face and told it was me interfering and she never asked for it. That’s not how you treat friends and ultimately I felt at the time that I couldn’t come back from that.

Possibly not, but you do have to be careful not to take the ‘after all I have done for you’ approach which is what the OP has done. And that’s why I can’t quite see this in the way that many do, where a loving and concerned friend has had it all thrown back in her face. Borne of good intentions no doubt but the OP has tried to take control and that’s what can’t happen in these situations. A controlled woman is only going to escape by taking control herself.

Yes that’s exactly it - she said “Don’t worry. I’m not going to fall out with you over this we can still be friends.” After I’d helped with, with her approval and her driving the “mission” to leave. If that’s not gaslighting I don’t know what is.

Telling me she never wanted to leave, that she’d always maintained that, telling me I had a vendetta against her DH and he wasn’t that bad, telling me she was bewildered at my plans to get her to leave and was too scared to speak up. These were all demonstrable lies. If this was a man doing it to his partner, or a parent doing it to a child would you say it’s not gaslighting?

It’s so hard. Your visceral reaction is to help and do all you can at all costs. It’s very hard knowing the other person doesn’t appreciate or even care that you’re going through that.

The really striking thing is how OP is hyper focused on how her friend made her feel.

And? Are my feelings not valid?

And, unpleasantly and tellingly, when OP sent her final message to her friend cutting her off, she waits till she has seen her friend has read it before blocking her

What is “telling” about this? I wanted to check she read it so it wasn’t ghosting. The only was I could do this was wait for the blue ticks as I had never blocked anyone before and wasn’t sure if it mean all the messages disappeared or anything after you block.

Posted too soon!

OP is behaving as if her friend asked her to arrange a holiday away for them both, then backed out at the last minute, rather than this was a friend who has spent years being destroyed

So because her situation was worse than mine it’s not ok for me to feel upset? Is it EVER ok for people around SV victims to feel anything but pity and sorrow? Is there any situation where my feelings would have been valid?

OP is VERY clear that she sees her friend not leaving in terms of how her friend ‘made’ OP feel, rejected, stupid, humiliated, used. She is unable to see this incident in terms of how her friend was experiencing it.

No I haven’t. I said if she’d gone about our last meeting in a different way things would have been different. I felt rejected, stupid humiliated and used because of the way she lied and gaslit me (yes I will continue to sue that word, I was there you were not) not because she stayed.

Your feelings are valid but what the PP is saying is, to put it bluntly, the situation isn’t about you.

It is fine to say ‘I can’t deal with this, this friendship isn’t fun / supportive / enjoyable.’ What is more uncomfortable is making it transactional; your friendship and support in return for her being a good girl and doing as she’s told.

There is a difference between awarding people dignity and respect and the tools to control their own life and bestowing charity.

Of course the OP didn't have an "after all I've done for you" attitude 🙄

The friend literally told her that "all she'd done" wasn't ever necessary and in fact was clear proof of the OP's "vendetta" against friend's DH!!

The OP didn't in any way initiate the convo that led to her blocking friend, it all came from the friend.

OP, you are handling all the negativity extremely well and are coming across as fair, kind, balanced and level headed. FWIW I think you absolutely did the right thing cutting contact with Kate - your feelings and wellbeing are just as valid as hers.

I can understand that you had compassion fatigue. I would suggest that having some training in domestic violence/abuse may help you with some insight that you possibly don't have right now. In my area there's lots of free training you can access with various organisations

She gave you the response that gave her what little sense of self, dignity and self-assertion she had left.

And how was I supposed to have reacted? I’m not entirely devoid of feelings. I was her friend not her therapist. This affected me, and it would have affected you.

What did you want her to do? Tell you she was too frightened? Too weak? Too incapable? Did you want her to humiliate herself in front of you too? in her life full of humiliation and degradation?

Not lie, make out I was behaving inappropriately, downplay her problems and tell me it was all in my head and not reality.

Hkw would telling the truth - that she wasn’t ready to leave - be humiliating? We were beat friends and she shared her feelings and thoughts almost every day with me. I wasn’t some strangers insisting on her humiliating herself. And is treating me so cruelly the only alternative?

It is surely not so surprising that in a life where her ‘incapability’ is constantly thrown in her face, that she reframed her ‘incapability’ to leave as her capability to assert herself against you?

Yes it was surprising. Of course it was that she entirely changed tact out of the blue to make me look like I was pushing her to end her marriage she didn’t want to end. Do you not think she could possibly have had different words?

Look, you clearly started this post looking only for validation and not to hear a wide variety of views

No - and I think I’ve taken the YABUs well but I didn’t expect to be lambasted for being upset about our final lunch and told I wasn’t gaslit, by people who weren’t there and don’t know the half of what happened and what was said

Maybe that will help you to have a little bit more understanding and compassion for why your friend spoke to you that day over lunch, and how it wasn’t about hurting you, but about protecting her own psychological state

But it did hurt me. It was unecessary and cruel and designed to smack me down and shut me up - even if it was from a place of coercion. I’m not a robot of her therapist, I’m a friend who’d been more supportive than I possibly could have been for 8 years, and it was thrown back in my face.

How was I supposed to feel? Was I supposed to be the first person in history to change my gut feeling about something in the blink of an eye?

Or people get worn down and emotionally exhausted being trauma dumped on and want to genuinely help a friend. All of this talk of being a saviour is pathetic.

she said “Don’t worry. I’m not going to fall out with you over this we can still be friends.”

OMG - so it was just up to her then was it? Reminds me of that scene in Happy Valley (between the 2 sisters in the café).

I honestly don't understand some of your critics here, some of the comments are so patronising. It's as if you have to just accept any old shite because your friend is in an abusive relationship.

I think some people expect a lot of friends if they’re suggesting they have DV training in order to be a suitable friend to someone in an abusive relationship. I can see that for some people being in an abusive relationship makes the relationship the whole world of the person being abused and everyone else seems to become characters in that world.

It’s not fair to say the op has saviour complex - she was friends with her friend before the abuse, she didn’t swoop in to save her. I’m interested what is expected - should you help or not?

NO, I did it for my friend. I didn’t find it enjoyable or vindicating, I found it another task on my insanely long “to do” list. But like with 90% of things on that list I did it out of caring for someone else. She was my best friend, someone I messaged daily and saw usually once a week. I did it because she asked for help. It didn’t do anything for my self esteem. Quite the opposite. Quite offensive to suggest I was gleefully smug thinking “Wow what a hero I am” as I looked round affordable rentals or stayed up til 11.30pm looking up divorce processes. To say I had a saviour fantasy and my friend had to “put I’ll with it” - I don’t know if you are being toady or just haven’t read all my replies but this is deeply deeply offensive. And wrong.

you needed to be a saviour and she needed you to be a safe person instead

Actually I just wanted a normal healthy friendship and a friend who was safe. It wasn’t about me at all and I got no pleasure from trying to help, but I did it because I loved her and it felt like absolutely the right thing to do.

This should have said I didn’t show her that I was angry she didn’t leave her DH after all.

Another thing - on that lunch she said she won’t be moving into the property, but didn’t say that she was sorry or acknowledge that meant I had to go have an awkward conversation with my uncle. And despite the fact she had his number she never contacted him herself to confirm she wouldn’t be moving into. He’s a businessman and it was really very good of him to rip up the contract and not pursue her like he could have. But he’s a decent man and thankfully never held it against me. But it’s still embarrassing and could have affected our relationship.i don’t think it’s a huge ask to have even a DA to care how her actions affect others.

Why can’t I point out that I’ve done a lot for her? What’s wrong with that?

It’s fine to do kind things because it’s enjoyable; it’s what we’re programmed to do and makes us as a species successful.

It’s easy to overstep the mark, is all I and some other posters are saying, and to become over involved and invested. That actually applies online as well as in rl. I remember a thread here from years ago like that.