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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

My feminism has made me bitter

158 replies

Yourra · 05/04/2025 08:07

At least I think it has. I’m late 30s and grew up in a very traditional home, my dad was in charge generally, mum stayed at home. It wasn’t until I was in my earlier thirties that I really woke up to the misogyny in the world.

My anger towards the patriarchy really took hold when I had my first dc. I was absolutely horrified by some things that went on at work, the way I had to fight with CMS when DD’s dad decided he didn’t want to be a parent anymore.

I am in a new relationship and I am happy but I now see very minor entitled behaviours in every man I come across, even those who would be considered ‘allies.’ My dad is a lovely man but I notice more how the dynamic with my mum was trenched in that patriarchal system.

Now my eyes are open I see it everywhere and honestly it makes me bitter. Not sure why I’m posting really, just wondered if anyone else felt this way.

OP posts:
Wishyouwerehere50 · 05/04/2025 14:11

Years of extreme personal suffering alongside years of counselling have made me pretty aware. MN has further helped that.

The price for this awareness is huge. A part of me wishes to go back to ignorance and self delusion. I believe that the majority are in delusion and therefore can cope with all this horrible stuff. ( They don't t really feel it or see it)

I'm single because of choice with severe health challenges. I however feel immense freedom because of this. In another life,I'd still choose singIedom. I don't know how any woman copes in a relationship, with children particularly. I believe there really are great men. Yet the pervasiveness of this stuff is just horrible. I can't believe what the younger me accepted,shrugged off, endured.

If I had a partner it would never work because I would be triggered by every expression that I felt reflected a patriarchy in any way now.

I look at the really doting trad wives and do think, if they are happy and fulfilled, I think that must be nice. To be so accepting and ok with the gender separation. I don't begrudge those women who enjoy it.

When it comes to raising children that's where it all gets so complicated for me. A traditional set up might really be in the best interest of children's development. But it goes against so much inside so many of us.

I guess the conclusion is that there's nothing wrong with traditional roles and those traditional roles should not have to equal unfair labour division, misogyny and no access to financial independence. I don't know how you achieve all that though.

Pigling · 05/04/2025 14:12

jellyfishperiwinkle · 05/04/2025 08:44

This.

I don't remember not noticing it. Even as a little kid in the 1980s it annoyed me that girls were thought to be weaker or not able to do certain things, which was certainly not how I felt. I knew it long before I learned the words to express it.

Edited

Yes, I've always been bright and read a lot. Before I reached secondary school, I realised:

  • boys expected to do less but achieve more
  • girls achievements often overlooked (not always - our best mathematician was a girl who I don't think ever got a question wrong in class)
  • girls on TV being weak, useless and boring if they were there at all (She-Ra needed a man to save her every week)
  • no girls as playable characters in video games
  • male default
  • male gaze

Secondary school helped me find words like '"representation" and understand the theoretical basis but reading "What Society Does to Girls" by Joyce Nicholson blew the lid off!!!

So I get you completely. I've always seen it, echoing throughout history, and it still angers me. I have 3 boys and I'm trying to make them better men.

Lostcat · 05/04/2025 14:30

FourEyesGood · 05/04/2025 08:19

Wow, thanks for explaining that to me. My poor little middle-aged feminist brain couldn’t grasp that.

My problem is not with the OP’s situation - I understand it and sympathise. It’s with the title, which implies the problem is feminism, not misogyny.

Well if you understood it then you really didn’t need to tell OP off for being “goady” and that she meant to write something different did you?

Wishyouwerehere50 · 05/04/2025 14:38

Lostcat · 05/04/2025 14:30

Well if you understood it then you really didn’t need to tell OP off for being “goady” and that she meant to write something different did you?

Edited

I actually do see the value in highlighting feminism as a driving cause and thus responsible in some way. Because it made me see things, realise things and wake up from a very naive state within which I had existed up until about 30 years old probably! It's a bit like shoot the messenger mentality.

So it made me see reality. And I feel a little bitter because reality is incredibly unpleasant and I often wish I could return to my deluded state. On this and many things actually 😆.

I wonder how much happier women in delusion or complete acceptance and contentment of a patriarchy, misogynist society are to the rest of us living more in truth. Genuine question.

Tradwife365 · 05/04/2025 14:48

Yourra · 05/04/2025 12:16

@Tradwife365 do you think women are better at it because they’ve been forced into that role and expectation, though? Or do you really think it’s a natural thing?

I really do genuinely believe that. It’s my belief that’s why modern marriages fail, as the woman constantly has to ask the man to do housework because woman have higher standards around the home. Woman naturally prefer a cleaner, more organised home so if a woman works she always has to ‘nag’ the man to do more.

gannett · 05/04/2025 14:49

Tradwife365 · 05/04/2025 14:48

I really do genuinely believe that. It’s my belief that’s why modern marriages fail, as the woman constantly has to ask the man to do housework because woman have higher standards around the home. Woman naturally prefer a cleaner, more organised home so if a woman works she always has to ‘nag’ the man to do more.

Have you seriously never met a messy woman (hi, it's me, now you have) or a neat man (that would be DP)?

Tradwife365 · 05/04/2025 14:53

gannett · 05/04/2025 14:49

Have you seriously never met a messy woman (hi, it's me, now you have) or a neat man (that would be DP)?

Ahh don’t worry there’s always anomalies to the general way people are. I totally accept that some people the opposite way round, but generally it is the woman that is naturally tidier!

Goldyyup · 05/04/2025 15:21

Tradwife365 · 05/04/2025 11:56

I’ve seen this a lot!
it’s very freeing when you accept that women are better and home and family based activities and men are more fit to work.
it all gets harder when you blur these boundaries and start bickering about ‘who does what’

How does this work @Tradwife365 ?

My friends husband left her with 5 kids to bring them up on her own and is rubbish at maintenance. Fortunately she is a doctor so she can support everyone herself. Had she been a 'tradwife', she would have been screwed not freed.

nomas · 05/04/2025 15:39

LoveItaly · 05/04/2025 09:57

I am retired now so can’t comment on the average workplace, but your experience everywhere else you mention is not mine at all. If anything, I find men generally move out of the way for me and are courteous (and it’s not because I am either ancient or a great beauty). And as an aside, I have noticed that it’s more often women than men who don’t thank me for letting them in to a line of traffic.

Well, I’m glad for you but this hasn’t been my experience.

Tradwife365 · 05/04/2025 16:35

Ah I’m so sorry for your friend that is an awful situation.
I just personally don’t want to work all through my children’s life just because of fear my DH will leave me. We are married so I would be protected and then of course I would have to work then but I wouldn’t so for all my life ‘just in case’

Goldyyup · 05/04/2025 16:43

Tradwife365 · 05/04/2025 16:35

Ah I’m so sorry for your friend that is an awful situation.
I just personally don’t want to work all through my children’s life just because of fear my DH will leave me. We are married so I would be protected and then of course I would have to work then but I wouldn’t so for all my life ‘just in case’

It is not about working all through your children's life just because of the fear that your DH might leave you. Things happen. People die. Anybody's spouse can leave at any time and then you are a single parent. The working spouse can become ill, disabled, unable to work. It is a risky way to live. Fine if you are happy with managing everything on your own if he leaves. It is quite a shock if you have not worked for many years and have little work experience. The job market is tough out there.

How much protection do you think you get when you are married? It is financial devastation for the 'tradwife' when the husband leaves. If the woman has a career and her own independent finances then she has much more protection for herself and her children.

Tradwife365 · 05/04/2025 16:53

Goldyyup · 05/04/2025 16:43

It is not about working all through your children's life just because of the fear that your DH might leave you. Things happen. People die. Anybody's spouse can leave at any time and then you are a single parent. The working spouse can become ill, disabled, unable to work. It is a risky way to live. Fine if you are happy with managing everything on your own if he leaves. It is quite a shock if you have not worked for many years and have little work experience. The job market is tough out there.

How much protection do you think you get when you are married? It is financial devastation for the 'tradwife' when the husband leaves. If the woman has a career and her own independent finances then she has much more protection for herself and her children.

We have a fantastic income protection, critical illness and life insurance package for DH so that’s the first part answered.
Yes it would be rough if he suddenly decided to leave but we are married so I do have some protection.
returning to the job market would be rough for me, I only ever earned minimum wage and quit my job when I married in order to be a homemaker. But I’m still not willing to sacrifice any real life to be in work and quite honestly my marriage would be much more likely to break down if I was in work anyway!

Goldyyup · 05/04/2025 16:58

Tradwife365 · 05/04/2025 16:53

We have a fantastic income protection, critical illness and life insurance package for DH so that’s the first part answered.
Yes it would be rough if he suddenly decided to leave but we are married so I do have some protection.
returning to the job market would be rough for me, I only ever earned minimum wage and quit my job when I married in order to be a homemaker. But I’m still not willing to sacrifice any real life to be in work and quite honestly my marriage would be much more likely to break down if I was in work anyway!

If he leaves you for someone else (which happens all the time), do you still have the fantastic income protection, critical illness and life insurance for the rest of your life? That is dependent on him staying.

How much protection do you think being married gives you? You will still most likely have to work unless he is willing to support you and the new woman if he leaves.

Life is tough on minimum wage.

You don't have to sacrifice anything but you leave yourself in a very vulnerable position. If you think that is worth it, then fine!

Asthma927 · 05/04/2025 17:12

Tradwife365 · 05/04/2025 14:53

Ahh don’t worry there’s always anomalies to the general way people are. I totally accept that some people the opposite way round, but generally it is the woman that is naturally tidier!

It's more complex than that. Girls are often brought up to do chores and help around the house. Women are often lumbered with the housework as there's no one else to do it and it's a societal expectation that women will do it.

Goldyyup · 05/04/2025 17:30

Asthma927 · 05/04/2025 17:12

It's more complex than that. Girls are often brought up to do chores and help around the house. Women are often lumbered with the housework as there's no one else to do it and it's a societal expectation that women will do it.

This is true of my upbringing. My brother and dad would sit on the sofa while me, my sister, mum would spend the evening cleaning up.

My mum still insists she treated her children the same in terms of chores 🙄

ElevenBells · 05/04/2025 17:56

I understand 100%.
But if you think it’s bad now just wait until perimenopause hits 😆

StumbleInTheDebris · 05/04/2025 19:05

Some people even extrapolate their own specific circumstances and personal preferences to make some sort of proclamation about an entire sex class.

Just bizarre!

Flamingoknees · 05/04/2025 19:18

nomas · 05/04/2025 08:35

It really is everywhere. Men expecting to be given way on the pavement, in supermarket aisles, on the roads, in the car park, at work.

I try to be aware and stand my ground, but I often just move so I can get to where I’m going, which the men take as their rightful due.

And then at home they have to be pushed to do their share.

And the swimming pool! They deserve to be in the fast lane because they are men. If in the main pool, and it's busy, they plough through everyone, refusing to veer from their straight line. My blood boils.

Lostcat · 05/04/2025 20:31

Tradwife365 · 05/04/2025 14:48

I really do genuinely believe that. It’s my belief that’s why modern marriages fail, as the woman constantly has to ask the man to do housework because woman have higher standards around the home. Woman naturally prefer a cleaner, more organised home so if a woman works she always has to ‘nag’ the man to do more.

Biggest load of bollox I ever heard

Tradwife365 · 05/04/2025 20:43

Lostcat · 05/04/2025 20:31

Biggest load of bollox I ever heard

Please do expand?

StumbleInTheDebris · 05/04/2025 20:49

Let's not feed the t...hread derailer.

We can all make stuff up for a reaction, but would be better to do it on other threads.

User37482 · 05/04/2025 20:55

Oh yes, having my DD was a trigger, the stuff I used to roll my eyes at and refuse to engage with (I’m asian so theres a lot I had to put my foot down on with in-laws expectations, tbf DH always been in my corner on this so it’s not been hard). I was always a feminist but I didn’t have a duaghter send out into the shit tip the world is at that point. The personal very quickly became political for me once she was born, I spend quite a bit of time being fucking furious on behalf of women all over the world.

Cantdecidewhattodohelp · 05/04/2025 21:41

FeministUnderTheCatriarchy · 05/04/2025 12:17

I feel very angry about the situation that women face worldwide — and here in the UK, where we claim to be a “developed” and “progressive” nation, yet women continue to suffer under the weight of misogyny in both insidious and overt ways.

If my DH and I split, I would never be with another man. DH tries to understand but he never will truly. You can't, unless you have experienced girl and womanhood within the patriarchy.

The comments of certain PP are exactly why I am extremely selective about my friendships with other women. I simply cannot — will not — associate with those who think feminism equals misogyny. That kind of thinking doesn’t just lack understanding; it contributes to the ongoing harm against women.

We’re told that women have “won” now, that there’s no need for feminism anymore. But feminism is the reason I can vote, hold a job, get an education, have a bank account, or own property. It’s the reason I have any rights at all. And yet we’re told to stop complaining? To be “grateful”?

While women are still dying?
There is a violence epidemic against women. In the UK, a woman is killed by a man every three days. Two women a week are murdered by a current or former partner. This is not rare, not random, and certainly not “just a few bad apples.” It is systemic.

Women are harassed, stalked, assaulted, and murdered — often by men they knew and once trusted. And that doesn’t even touch on the countless women who live under coercive control, with 1.6 million women experiencing domestic abuse in a single year.

Sexual violence is rampant. One in four women are sexually assaulted or raped — and experts say this is a conservative estimate. Rape convictions sit around 1%. Why? Because women lie all the time? No. Because the system is built — rigged — to protect men.

And the lie that gets recycled again and again is that men are the real victims — citing suicide, false accusations, war, and so on.

Let’s break that down.
Yes, more men die by suicide, but women attempt it just as often — sometimes more, depending on the age group.
The difference is that men choose more violent methods, which is itself a reflection of broader male violence patterns. So mental health-wise, we are all suffering. But somehow, only one narrative gets prioritised.

Also men are 230 times more likely to be raped by another man than to be falsely accused by a woman — but it’s our integrity that’s constantly questioned.
Meanwhile, 97% of women aged 18–24 in the UK have experienced sexual harassment, and yet less than 4% reported it. And even within our justice system, women are unsafe — over 1,500 police officers were accused of violence against women and girls between 2017–2020, and only 8% faced any kind of disciplinary action.

Sarah Everard’s murder by a serving officer should have been a turning point. It wasn’t.
We are told to “go into the trades” or “join the military” to prove equality — as though the only barrier is our willingness. There would be more women in those fields if the misogyny and sexual assault weren’t so rampant. Women don’t just fear “the enemy” — they fear every man they come into contact with.

Let’s also talk about the economic side of this. Women still earn 85p for every £1 a man earns in the UK. Women of colour earn even less. Mothers are penalised severely in the workplace — the so-called “motherhood penalty” can cut a woman’s lifetime earnings by up to £100,000. And women are still overrepresented in low-paid, insecure, and unpaid caregiving roles.

Even our bodies are ignored. Women’s medical issues are under-researched, under-diagnosed, and routinely dismissed. It takes 7 to 10 years to be diagnosed with endometriosis. ADHD and autism are often missed entirely in women because the research was done almost exclusively on men.

So yes, I am angry. I am exhausted. And I am done entertaining this backlash against feminism as if it's coming from a place of logic or compassion.

Men are scared women will laugh at them.
Women are scared men will rape and kill them.

Anti-feminism is not a difference of opinion — it’s complicity in violence. We have come so far because of feminism. And we still have so, so far to go.

100% agree with this!
How can people say feminism isn't needed any more when a man can walk home from the pub without a second thought and a woman can't?

For me it's not just to do with the homemaker/bread winner argument (most families I know now have both parents working) but violence and society pressure on women. In every area of society women are are seen as less - from suble society expectations such as woman's role to be a people pleaser , to medical advice (more studies on men) to ageing and how you look and behave. We need to keep expecting better from society u believe.

StandFirm · 05/04/2025 21:57

Yourra · 05/04/2025 08:07

At least I think it has. I’m late 30s and grew up in a very traditional home, my dad was in charge generally, mum stayed at home. It wasn’t until I was in my earlier thirties that I really woke up to the misogyny in the world.

My anger towards the patriarchy really took hold when I had my first dc. I was absolutely horrified by some things that went on at work, the way I had to fight with CMS when DD’s dad decided he didn’t want to be a parent anymore.

I am in a new relationship and I am happy but I now see very minor entitled behaviours in every man I come across, even those who would be considered ‘allies.’ My dad is a lovely man but I notice more how the dynamic with my mum was trenched in that patriarchal system.

Now my eyes are open I see it everywhere and honestly it makes me bitter. Not sure why I’m posting really, just wondered if anyone else felt this way.

It's not your feminism that has made you bitter, it's constantly coming across dicks that's done that for you. There is a lot of work to be done before equality is achieved and women are truly respected. There's pushback against this from various quarters. Don't bury your head in the sand, but try and not get consumed by anger is my advice :)

singlemum93 · 05/04/2025 22:02

FeministUnderTheCatriarchy · 05/04/2025 12:17

I feel very angry about the situation that women face worldwide — and here in the UK, where we claim to be a “developed” and “progressive” nation, yet women continue to suffer under the weight of misogyny in both insidious and overt ways.

If my DH and I split, I would never be with another man. DH tries to understand but he never will truly. You can't, unless you have experienced girl and womanhood within the patriarchy.

The comments of certain PP are exactly why I am extremely selective about my friendships with other women. I simply cannot — will not — associate with those who think feminism equals misogyny. That kind of thinking doesn’t just lack understanding; it contributes to the ongoing harm against women.

We’re told that women have “won” now, that there’s no need for feminism anymore. But feminism is the reason I can vote, hold a job, get an education, have a bank account, or own property. It’s the reason I have any rights at all. And yet we’re told to stop complaining? To be “grateful”?

While women are still dying?
There is a violence epidemic against women. In the UK, a woman is killed by a man every three days. Two women a week are murdered by a current or former partner. This is not rare, not random, and certainly not “just a few bad apples.” It is systemic.

Women are harassed, stalked, assaulted, and murdered — often by men they knew and once trusted. And that doesn’t even touch on the countless women who live under coercive control, with 1.6 million women experiencing domestic abuse in a single year.

Sexual violence is rampant. One in four women are sexually assaulted or raped — and experts say this is a conservative estimate. Rape convictions sit around 1%. Why? Because women lie all the time? No. Because the system is built — rigged — to protect men.

And the lie that gets recycled again and again is that men are the real victims — citing suicide, false accusations, war, and so on.

Let’s break that down.
Yes, more men die by suicide, but women attempt it just as often — sometimes more, depending on the age group.
The difference is that men choose more violent methods, which is itself a reflection of broader male violence patterns. So mental health-wise, we are all suffering. But somehow, only one narrative gets prioritised.

Also men are 230 times more likely to be raped by another man than to be falsely accused by a woman — but it’s our integrity that’s constantly questioned.
Meanwhile, 97% of women aged 18–24 in the UK have experienced sexual harassment, and yet less than 4% reported it. And even within our justice system, women are unsafe — over 1,500 police officers were accused of violence against women and girls between 2017–2020, and only 8% faced any kind of disciplinary action.

Sarah Everard’s murder by a serving officer should have been a turning point. It wasn’t.
We are told to “go into the trades” or “join the military” to prove equality — as though the only barrier is our willingness. There would be more women in those fields if the misogyny and sexual assault weren’t so rampant. Women don’t just fear “the enemy” — they fear every man they come into contact with.

Let’s also talk about the economic side of this. Women still earn 85p for every £1 a man earns in the UK. Women of colour earn even less. Mothers are penalised severely in the workplace — the so-called “motherhood penalty” can cut a woman’s lifetime earnings by up to £100,000. And women are still overrepresented in low-paid, insecure, and unpaid caregiving roles.

Even our bodies are ignored. Women’s medical issues are under-researched, under-diagnosed, and routinely dismissed. It takes 7 to 10 years to be diagnosed with endometriosis. ADHD and autism are often missed entirely in women because the research was done almost exclusively on men.

So yes, I am angry. I am exhausted. And I am done entertaining this backlash against feminism as if it's coming from a place of logic or compassion.

Men are scared women will laugh at them.
Women are scared men will rape and kill them.

Anti-feminism is not a difference of opinion — it’s complicity in violence. We have come so far because of feminism. And we still have so, so far to go.

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