My feminism has made me bitter

[Yourra]

At least I think it has. I’m late 30s and grew up in a very traditional home, my dad was in charge generally, mum stayed at home. It wasn’t until I was in my earlier thirties that I really woke up to the misogyny in the world.

My anger towards the patriarchy really took hold when I had my first dc. I was absolutely horrified by some things that went on at work, the way I had to fight with CMS when DD’s dad decided he didn’t want to be a parent anymore.

I am in a new relationship and I am happy but I now see very minor entitled behaviours in every man I come across, even those who would be considered ‘allies.’ My dad is a lovely man but I notice more how the dynamic with my mum was trenched in that patriarchal system.

Now my eyes are open I see it everywhere and honestly it makes me bitter. Not sure why I’m posting really, just wondered if anyone else felt this way.

I think in saying that you are just looking at interpersonal relationships and not considering the power imbalance inherent in patriarchy.

Past feminists and present feminists are in no way alike. I could never class myself as a modern day feminist.

I've never had to get credit so that's irrelevant.

I don’t think MGTOW is about choice. It feels more like lack of choice- men believing that having a relationship with a woman is impossible and therefore embracing its absence. It really feels like a negative and part of our increasing social atomisation.

No I’m not. I don’t believe in only looking out for women. I believe in looking out for all good people.
The patriarchy became the patriarchy because men looked out for men. I have no desire whatsoever to flip that balance into a matriarchy. I’d like fairness for all.
Feminism and misogyny are two sides of the same coin imo. And they lead to misery.

Well, I agree with sentence 1.

But sentence 2 - give me strength! YOU never had to get credit so irrelevant, and never mind all the other women in the world…

Not to mention equal pay, the right to work when married, the right not to be raped in marriage, rights to own property, get mortgages, drive, vote… so many more that I really shouldn't have to spell out.
Are these irrelevant?

Yep, where and when I grew up girls still did textiles while the boys did football. I wasn’t allowed meccano even. After the first time I got followed, after my parents got bored, they tried to tell me I could only go out under the supervision of my little brother. It was not boys that were discouraged from being out of doors. The world of work is specifically set up for men, set up in a period of history when women’s rights hit a low. Women are the ‘reserve’ in modern western economics and their well-being is simply not a factor.

In 50 years I have never met a man who truly believed women’s time and effort were as valuable as their own; unfortunately my ‘d’h fell well short of that once I had kids. Lots of talk and crap to make himself look and feel good at his work, but happy to chuck my life under the bus as soon is it’s even slightly inconvenient.

Men are a major problem in societies around the world and commit violence everywhere. The next age of civilization needs to put women and ecology first again. We are the path to the future, not them.

I can't relate to this at all. I was raised by my dad and have been with my DH for 30 years this year.
My dad was the most amazing man and DH is literally my favourite person on this planet.
Neither has ever made me feel 'less than' - quite the opposite in fact. I can't imagine never having had both these men in my life.
Sure, there are complete dicks in every walk of life - but, honestly, I know as many women (if not more!) who are like this as I do men.
Good men are out there, you just need to find them. It also goes without saying that if you're giving negative energy out, that's what you'll get back.

I meant irrelevant to me personally, that seemed like an odd choice for you to pick as your example out of everything.

All the things you listed are what feminism should be/used to be. It's turned into something unrecognisable and I could no longer proudly announce myself as a feminist because there is so much that I simply wouldn't want to be associated with.

Sorry for potential double post:
“Feminism and misogyny are two sides of the same coin imo. And they lead to misery.”

The other side of misogyny is misandry, not feminism.
Maintaining that women should not be subject to patriarchal attitudes and structures does not lead to misery, on the contrary, it has led to more freedom and less oppression for women in the western world, which has been far from miserable.
Not the whole world, yet.

Unfortunately wherever men are, women get pushed out. We don’t get equal treatment anywhere when a man’s interests are at stake, whether that’s school, work, or walking down a road. How do you square that circle? In ancient northern civilisations land was passed down the female line.

I've been a feminist since I was a child and had to stop reading feminist books because I just got too angry. I'm not bitter and don't hate men but I see misogyny everywhere.

Feminism isn't the answer, that's why. It's not just or only men who are the problem, women are too. We are all flawed human beings and we mess things up.

Feminism used to be about getting the vote (absolutely needed that) and not being mere chattels in marriage (again, totally needed) and other necessary things but nowadays it seems centered towards hating men. That's not helpful whatsoever. We poison ourselves by thinking that way.

This is simply untrue, and believing this (before you’ve even entered a situation) causes mistrust and dislike. And misery.

I have a good man as well and we’ve been together for 30 years, but good men can be especially galling. Mine used to think the fact he was a ‘good man’ meant he should have gold stars. Also , that his sexist banter with other ‘good men’ was just harmless humour because they were good guys. For example, noting in public that he did 50% of the cooking, or 50% of the laundry etc (he really didn’t but perceived he did). Instead of that being fair to the point of not needing to be remarked on. As it happens, he has been doing 90-100% of those chores since I went on full strike many many months ago. I tell him I’m quite enjoying being a man (it is fab, by the way). Unlike men though, I do occasionally feel a bit guilty.

Feminism is about achieving equality. Treating women with respect and dignity. There are different types of feminism and different views on how to achieve that. Reducing it to 'man hate' is very simplistic.

Misandry is its antonym, that’s not what I’m talking about.
Distinguishing between the sexes in a ‘good vs bad’ manner leads to misery. That’s what feminism does - it shouts for one side of the argument only.
To progress as a society we need everyone invested; men and women alike.
Feminists don’t help this any more than misogynists do. They are two sides of the same coin. It’s very destructive, divisive and leads to a lot of unhappiness.

“All the things you listed are what feminism should be/used to be. It's turned into something unrecognisable and I could no longer proudly announce myself as a feminist because there is so much that I simply wouldn't want to be associated with.”

As an old, second wave feminist, I agree with this observation but I disagree with disassociating from what passes for feminism nowadays because of it.

Like any other movement that is perceived as dangerous and upsetting the status quo, feminism had been recuperated, distorted and repackaged, and then sold back to us.
In particular, it has elements of misandry and at the same time, of centering men, these days. There is also a complacent “well, I haven't experienced misogyny, so it isn't an issue” contingent.

So I remain a proud and unreconstructed feminist and continue to promote the “real” feminism over all this other twaddle.
I am not going to let it be taken away and replaced with something safer, more comfortable, less relevant, less feminist, without objecting.

And to the other poster, I think you are just plain wrong about your insistence that feminism leads to misery, for reasons in my previous post.

How do women achieve equal status and treatment without a women's movement?

This. Don’t blame reality!

It is the micro misogyny that annoys me the most.

I was shopping in California for a new bag. I am autistic and can feel quite overwhelmed at times going into unfamiliar shops; I entered a higher end bag store and happened to look round to see if my husband had followed me in.

A male store assistant asked me if I was ok? I responded that I was just looking to see if my husband had followed me in or was still outside. The store assistant’s response was you need to go get him to pay for the bag. I curtly responded no I would not, as actually I am a higher earner than my husband and any purchase would be with my own money.

I wanted to say; I understand there must be cultural difference as I am British and you as an American man; who must be under the impression that a woman who is feminine in appearance and speaks with a lisp (due to deafness) must be incapable of being being employed therefore requires a man to fund her new handbag. Of course understanding this would be rude, I actually left the store instead refusing to spend my money there.

Why are mens struggles my problem to fix?

Women aren't causing mens problems unless you believe that women who refuse to make serving men their reason for being are a problem.

I feel same the same. The only thing that makes me feel better is to channel the energy into activism, if you sit with the bitterness it will make you rot, better to release the bitterness into the world!!

As a child I noticed how unequal and unfair life was for girls/women. As I grew older, I realized that misogyny is rife in all cultures, to some extent.

@FOJNabolutely. The patriarchy is bad for men too-but they really have to step up and start to do something about it. Like women had to.

@Theeyeballsinthesky I have noticed this too. Men see women as something they can use in some way. Once there’s no longer a use (in their eyes), you realise the self serving basis of their interactions.