Mum of girls (Caitlin Moran) telling us mums of boys how to speak to our sons

[Suitablefor]

Thanks 🤔

Talking my daughter won't stop someone's son raping her will it. Only people raising their sons well will stop them raping her. I would say mothers of daughters are far more invested in stopping boys growing up as dangerous men than mothers of sons.

I just find it unbelievable that you think you need to have a son to know how to prevent a boy growing up into a misogynist. Anyone who understands psychology and societal pressure can give advice on this. It's clear from the amount of men who abuse women that just having a son doesn't make you good at raising sons to be good men.

I'm not saying it does, far from it. But I found her choice of words to be in poor taste, which is my own opinion.

No I think you're pushing things a bit there. Don't worry. I'm not saying that.

I'm saying that statistically the biggest fans of Andrew Tate are black boys followed by Asian boys. Not the Jamies of this world where AT has only 8% approval. Knife crime is mostly carried out by black males followed by minority ethnic males. There is not a pressing issue to sort out knife crime committed by white boys like Jamie over and above the other types of pepertrators (particularly if as you say the victims will be harmed by their peers).

You do then seem to make the assumption that a white girl will be attacked by a white boy..I think that's what you are saying. So if you are right, why should white.girls jump the queue in being a priority as a potential victim when it's more likely to be a black girl stabbed?.

Anyway I don't think this thread is about race. I'm just saying that there isn't a huge jump on boys like Jamie.attacking their friends and I don't think it's helpful to suggest that there's a massive problem when there isn't..we shouldn't all start being.scared of our boys.

Surely you can understand that the humanising of the fetus with the description of the “hand waving” is really hard for some people to read.

That sort of makes the parents of a boy redundant and pointless if any old random can jump in.and be in charge of teaching the boy behaviour. Isn't that the main problem now? Parents not doing their most important job and teaching a son to behave properly. Leaving it to schools.

Christ, who gives a shit what Caitlin Moran says. She’s obviously run out of ‘girl mum’ wind bagging

Nope - and I read the original when she made the statement at the time. It’s fine to see your abortion as not that big a deal

Well, that’s a lack of empathy on your part.

It's very strange to think that giving parents advice makes the parents redundant.

No I'm responding to the comment that any psychiatrist can teach a boy how to behave. That's really sad. And completely ignores the very important and specific role of an actual parent or parent figure. This is why there in groups where there is no father figure, boys search for male role models which is where it goes wrong with Andrew Tate.

It's entirely true though. Every male that abused a female was once a boy.

Some of today's boys are all of tomorrows misogynists, we just don't know which ones they are yet. No wife beater or rapist was born a middle aged woman beater were they.

Ahhh if only it was that simple - ‘well raised men don’t become rapists’ 😳

This kind of 1+1=2 thinking is so flimsy and useless yet people cling onto it. Parenting can only do so much for kids - from the age of 4, they spend more time with their peers and ‘society’ than they do their parents.

As a mother of both sexes (so, very invested in the happiness of all!), I think the issue for young men is frankly a lack of responsibility and an explosive rage through a sedentary, gaming UPF lifestyle which does nothing to alleviate negative feelings and instead actually hypes them up.

There ARE differences between boys and girls. My son is only small, but if he doesn’t get at least 2 hours to blow off steam by charging around outside every day, he goes into a very fussy and angsty mood. The effect of a lack of fresh air, exercise and physical challenge is very very noticeable with him.

My daughter on the other hand craves human interaction and goes into a similar mood if she feels bored/lonely or if she doesn’t see her friends for a few days.

I was at the primary school a few nights back and the number of boys who were overweight, pasty and wearing ‘Fortnite’ blanket hoodies was a shocker. So many young boys are clearly being raised on screens, junk food and barely seeing the light of day. The link between physical and mental health is proven, yet we continue to ignore it.

But what do you think you would.say differently to a mother of a son. Who was also a girl once herself. She would presumably have a foot in both camps?

1. Do you have a link to a credible source on the ethnic breakdown of Andrew Tate’s subscribers / followers? And also where is the 8% sourced from?
2. Knife crime of the type you refer to is typically gang related and male on male; that is NOT the context of adolescence which is specifically about misogyny, violent misogyny, the manosphere and the indoctrination of young boys. Trying to conflate the two does a disservice to the girls and women harmed by this.
3. I don’t think I KNOW that most women that are harmed are harmed by the men and boys they know - which is why your suggestion that white working class boys don’t harm women and girls is nonsensical - as white working class women are harmed by their male peers everyday (there male peers overwhelmingly being men of the same socio-economic / ethnic background.)
4. What you talking about queue jumping? What are you talking about black girls being more likely to be the victim of male violence? This is a topic of misogyny, MVAWG, the manosphere and the impact to women and you are…..reducing it to race? The topic is about that and you ste focused on the ethnicity of the male lead and his female victim in the show?

Online radicalisation of boys is a growing problem. Countless educators are raising the alarm. You are choosing to put your head in the sand.

The perpetrator of violence to women will statistically be known to the woman eg
Fathers,Husbands,Partners,sons. Overwhelmingly.
Male Stranger violence to women is the minority

Us on the app don’t see the homepage.

I was talking about the scenarios it depicts. So many implausible scenarios and conflation of issues. But it’s a drama. It doesn’t need to be based on facts and statistics.

Could you share a link to quantitative evidence of ‘a growing issue’ of boys and men being indoctrinated by online misogyny. I don’t mean that they can see misogynistic stuff online, I mean that they’re being ‘indoctrinated’ by it in any kind of substantial proportions.

And evidence of the link, as you imply, between this indoctrination and the very serious issue of youth violence dealt with in Adolescence. Bearing in mind most teenage victims of knife crime are young men.

I agree that VAWG is also a very serious problem, but how much is perpetrated by men who had their youth before YouTube and social media existed?

I don't know what you think of the MSM as usually my sources like the Telegraph get pooh poohed. But I saw a really interesting episode of Triggernometry with an academic who had.studied this very issue in incel psychology. I hope I have successfully linked it. Let me know if not. The relevant bit about race is at 10.14 onwards. It's really interesting and just gives some balance to the hype about Adolescence. And answers all your points.

Triggernometry Triggernometry- Incel Expert breaks down Netflix Adolescence

Except we have to go on the mobile site to do all the things that the new improved app still can’t do

Why on earth do you think only mother’s of boys are allowed to discuss boys behaviour or issues with them?

I see your point, but does this also mean you wouldn't speak to a child-free family therapist or believe that child free teachers know less about disciplining children?

CM rubs some people up the wrong way but she's a writer and journalist and has presumably done extensive research. Plus, as a mum of girls she sees first hand what damage boys can do.

Yeah I couldn’t care less what she thinks.

The idea that she knows what’s going on in the heads of teenage boys is ludicrous.

Why, are her girls very damaged?

From the women who celebrated being a slovenly mummy until it wasn’t fashionable anymore

now another bandwagon to jump on to earn some cash

The vast majority of sex offenders are men, yes. But they also account for a tiny, tiny percentage of men. Treating all boys as potential future sex offenders or abusers is ludicrous and damaging . That's like saying because most teachers are women, we should treat all girls as if they're most likely going to be teachers when they grow up.