AIBU to start limiting contact with my MIL for my 3 kids?

[clrd]

We have three kids—5, 3, and almost 1. My husband works very long hours and earns well, which allows me to be a SAHM (what I’d always wanted to be). Our setup works well: I handle the kids’ schedules, education, health, as well as family visits because if we only saw family when my husband was available, it would eat into our rare family time and mean the kids saw their grandparents much less. It seems to work well with everything except MIL’s visits.

The problem is, the more kids we have, the more overbearing my MIL becomes. She has an opinion on everything. Every visit, she reminds me she doesn’t like the school our eldest goes to (she knows I was the one who researched and chose it). She constantly brings up how I “didn’t breastfeed for long enough” with my youngest, jokingly guesses if I’m pregnant and regularly jokes that it’s time for me to get pregnant again to “keep up the pattern.” When I brush it off, she’ll shake her head and say things like, “Well, you don’t want to leave an awkward gap, do you?” as if our family planning is somehow her decision. She also completely undermines my parenting whenever she visits. If I say it’s bedtime, she’ll immediately counter with, “Oh, don’t be silly! Granny’s still here, they can stay up late.”

When I was pregnant with my youngest, I had horrible morning sickness. One afternoon, MIL was over while I was struggling to get through the day, barely able to keep food down. As I’d been trying to keep 2 toddlers happy all morning, I thought now that their gran is here maybe I’ll sit and relax for a minute. She looked me up and down and said, “Just because you’re pregnant doesn’t mean you can stay on the sofa all day - the kids will think it’s new baby’s fault their mum doesn’t play with them. Also put some make up on before DH gets home - men love with their eyes” all said in a tone as if she’s doing me a favour sharing her advice based on a lifetime of experience and knowledge. I was exhausted, nauseous, and barely holding it together, and I just burst into tears. Instead of apologizing, she just rolled her eyes and muttered, “Oh, it’s just hormones.”

Another time, she made a comment that actually reduced me to tears in front of my kids. The baby had been fussy all morning, I was dealing with a tantrum from my toddler, and my eldest was whining about something minor. I was completely overwhelmed. MIL just sighed dramatically and said, “Maybe if you gave them more time each individually, they wouldn’t act like this.” I just broke. For context, they have all my time. I rarely go anywhere without them and spend all day every day making sure they’re healthy, happy and being developed. Admittedly it’s mainly with all 3 (or now, 2 of them, as the oldest is at school) rather than 1 on 1. I started crying right there while my kids stared at me, and instead of offering any kindness, she just muttered, “Oh, don’t be so sensitive.”

For context, my husband is from a culture where grandparents are much more involved, often even living with their adult children. That’s not how we’ve structured our family, but it explains why MIL sees herself as having a bigger role than I think is appropriate.

My husband is an amazing dad, incredibly supportive, and earns more than enough to provide us with a very comfortable life. We even have a housekeeper, so it’s not like I’m drowning in housework, it’s just that every time MIL is here, I feel constantly judged, criticised, and completely dismissed.

Would I be unreasonable to start limiting contact, even if that means the kids see her less?

The cultural thing is a red herring.

You are from a different culture to her so are not obliged to follow their traditions (not that you have to even if you were btw). Start asserting your own culture instead.

If your DH or MiL says 'well this is our culture' then say 'well, this isn't my culture and we don't do things that way, so I won't be doing that'.

You've got a chance to show your children a more positive way of dealing with bullying under the guise of culture.

Ok, stop right there! It is an option! You just don't want to do stand up to her and your husband. This is not 'culture', this is abuse! You need to tell your husband you want to go NC with her, or at least have her only come around when he is there. You HAVE a choice. You can threaten divorce if he doesn't do something and fast. You DON'T HAVE TO TAKE THIS! This is now affecting your innocent children! Hearing her say these things is affecting them.....don't you see this? Don't you understand this? Do something and right now.

Lots of the advice above about limiting her visits might be the right thing for you as the person you are but I wanted to share what I would do - just to give you another perspective.
Firstly I would have a convo with my husband. I would state his mother is rude and upsetting and I was done with it. Any ‘but normal for the culture’ I respond - It is against my culture to be belittled in my own home and I demand it stops in line
with MY cultural needs. He has two options, either contact outside his presence with MIL would be removed, or when she starts I would respond and refuse to accept rude behaviour and then would deal with whatever the consequences of that are.
If he chooses minimal contact - so be it. Assuming he goes for answer back (I think he would here) then I would, in advance, consider all the main criticisms she brings up and the arguments for them and prepare my defence to each one of her points. Practice a lot and think though every come back she might have and the follow up to the follow up. Then, next time she does it, I’d go there. Want to discuss the school choice? Ok then! I’d have the argument as to why your choice was better. I’d take as long as it took, in front of the kids, no problem. I’d go for an hour or more if needed but would NOT drop it till she concedes or begs me to drop it. She gets angry? Don’t be so sensitive I’m only responding to comments YOU raised! Basically I would make the pain of raising her criticisms so high she will never want to do it again. Or she gets so angry she doesn’t come back. I would hope this way to get to a point where she sees the children but thinks twice before criticising and certainly doesn’t do it twice. It also models standing up to bullies to your children.

She might be a bully if we look from a western point of view, but I bet she is seen as a normal, average mother in her culture/country of origin, because that's just the way things are there. Your DH is right in a way - that she probably has no idea how she comes across (you mentioned she is the same - nosy and critical - with her daughters) because she thinks she is just a normal MIL. Unfortunately you won't change her, you just need to stop taking everything so seriously and laugh everything off - that's how other DILs survive in that culture. Sometimes my SIL acts like that but it's only 2 weeks in a year, so I just ignore it, laugh it off. The bad thing is that you see her so often - it would make me mad, too. But sometimes those are the things we need to accept if we marry within other culture (and so far you have benefitted from that culture - you can be a SAHM). The situation is delicate - if you start putting too much pressure on your DH, there is a 50-50 chance that he will take his mom's side and that could destroy your marriage. She will always blame it on you. On the other hand - she could be a wonderful grandmother to your kids, so cutting her off would be unfair in my view. You need to separate 2 things here - her being a MIL and her being a grandma.

You are seeing this as binary when it isn't.

You think she comes when you are alone with the kids to abuse you or she comes during 'family time'.

Start her coming during family time as that is the only way you can handle her and then gradually reduce these visits. This way it will look like DH is fading her as he bloody well needs to.

You have to stop her coming when you are alone with her. Your mental health will break down and that will be your fault too!!

Start to see her as a monster and fade fade and fade some more.

My granny was vile and I remember Mum locking the door and us all running upstairs when she turned up. It took a few months for the penny to drop and she stopped coming but I remember being grateful to Mum for stopping her verbal abuse of us all.

When we visited her, she was far less toxic as she knew she wouldn't see us at all otherwise.

I'm sorry to read your thread, it sounds really upsetting.

It sounds very much like a cultural issue and MIL wanting to be really involved and respected - and pushing her views at every stage.

What I would say is that talking to her directly may add more stress, particularly if DH takes the path of least resistance, and may create tension in your marriage.

Maybe try to

1. minimize time with MIL, for example if she comes over at 2pm, then arrange something for 3/4pm that would lift you after she leaves.

2. Ask DH to make some time for his mother, I would sacrifice some family time so that he can help with these visits. There's no point having additional family time when you're upset and discussing her anyway.

3. If she makes a nasty comment, laugh be unusually chipper about it. It will throw her off!! Or talk about something completely different as though you actually didnt hear her.

4. try to involve her in playing with the kids, she'll be too exhausted to say anything to you. ....Lego, puzzles, cars, ball games, trampolining?

5. Get her to talk about her life/friends.. maybe she'll end up criticising them instead?

6. Could MIL join some groups, walking, bridge, religious?

On a longer term note, and I'm sure you'll be looking at schools for the kids. Are there better (grammar) schools further away, can you justify a move away from MIL to be in a better catchment area?

I used to think that direct conversations with MILs were better, but truthfully, with some cultures and people set in their ways (and DH being stuck in the middle and wanting to avoid conflict) finding a route around the problem might be less stressful. I do think if you go the confrontation route, you'll come across as the 'bad guy' and MIL will be really 'upset'.. (tearful, ill, palpitations, high BP?)... And I'm not sure how that scenario would help you and DH?

This is the put up and shut up, be a door mat approach.

@clrd Don't do this or you'll teach your kids bad behaviour in families is okay. It's not okay whatever culture it is.

The western "Not being a doormat" approach results in cutting off everybody, loneliness and depression in life. There is balance to be made here - she just needs to find a way - I think @TheFlakyPoet has a point here and some good advice.

No, it does not mean cutting off "everybody" at all! Just one person here. You don't need to have contact with toxic relatives to starve off loneliness and depression. That is what friends are for. And family isn't always flesh and blood. But friends are more often than not family and better than and closer than.

You're going to have to learn how to say "sorry now is not a good time" for unannounced visits. So when she rings the doorbell go to the door and stand very firmly in the way and say "now is not a good time"
When she says it's only for a minute or just popping in lunch or whatever just repeat "sorry now is not a good time, see you soon"
She says what's wrong, is everything OK? You say "yes we are fine but now is not a good time, see you another time"
That way the visits are only at times you control.

A friend of mine had a difficult MIL who used to turn up unannounced.

After putting up with it for a while my friend ignored her MIL at the door and on the phone. She ignored the knocking on the window shouting 'hello! It's only me!'

When one of the children saw her and said 'grandma's there' my friend took the children upstairs and waited until the MIL had gone.

Later on when the MIL complained and was upset my friend explained that she was welcome to visit when invited.

Harsh, but it worked.

"She visits quite randomly. Popping in for “an hour” (it’s never an hour) as she’s in the area and knows we’ll be in. Knows we’ll be at the zoo till 4pm because that’s when it closes so she’ll come after. Letting us know she’d love to bring the kids pastries for breakfast or pick up from school (it’s not like I can say my child won’t be at school pickup today)"

If she wants to see the grandkids so much, give her jobs to do! Bath the little one, reading with the school one, colouring with the middleone?

When she pops in unexpectedly, can you suddenly need some milk/nappies/tampons from the shops and pop out? Bring her back a special pastry too!

OP, it sounds like you need a rest / holiday and may be you are a little hormonal, because while she is out of order, you are falling for her tricks.

She is a bully. Make her fear your boredom of her, as your reaction is what gives her the kicks and satisfaction.

When she goes over the same stuff again like the school choice, say - yes, you have mentioned this before, do you remember? Suggest health concern like a bad memory, should she get checked herself checked out? Say this very lovingly in front of others. Say my Great Aunt was like this, early signs of cognitive decline…

When she criticises, let her. Switch off in your head and just say yes, I hear you. That’s it, no biting.

More children comments - yeah, definitely… Sorry, I forgot, I have a bikini wax booked, gotta go.

A wonderful grandmother doesn't reduce her DIL to tears in front of her grandchildren. Your proposed solution of laughing it off would be reasonable if OP only saw her MIL a couple of times a year but she sees her multiple times a week. The awful behaviour isn't occasional but constant. Her MIL says something cruel every time she visits.

Also, why should OP just accept the unkind treatment of DIL's from OP's DH's and MIL's culture when OP isn't from that culture?

Plus, I don't think that it's necessarily cultural. The frequent visits and the giving of advice may be, but reducing your DIL to tears on every single visit would indicate that her MIL is a total bitch and we get those in every culture and they shouldn't be allowed to get away with it.

No it really doesn't and that's lazy thinking.

A good grandmother doesn't reduce their DiL to tears or make their GC feel bad every time they see them..

Raise your bar and stop being an enabler.

I think you need to speak plainly to your mother in law. She may be from a different culture but must learn what is appropriate for you. Quite honestly I've not come across people from other 'cultures' being so horrible to their children/in-laws, especially in front of grandchildren. Their role is to be loving and supportive, not judgemental.

Grandparents have opinion and occasionally voice them, that is normal. We don't always agree with them and sometimes it is irritating but your mother in law has taken it to a whole new level. She needs telling! Get your husband on board, he lives with you and understands what's what, and father-in-law.

There are gentle ways of telling someone to stop but it has to be straightforward. She won't like it but will take it on board because she loves her family, including you, and wants to carry on being involved. I hope.

Good luck.

Boom. This is the one.

”Sorry MIL, in my culture guests are respectful to their hosts.”
”No MIL, in my culture we don’t criticise each other for how we fed our babies, it’s considered incredibly rude.”
”I hope you don’t speak this way to anyone else MIL, In our culture that would be seen as the height of bad manners. Do you never have friends tell you you’re being rude?”

Flip the script, take back the power. She is in YOUR home. Stop answering all her calls. If she asks when you’re free just say “actually this week is very busy, you can perhaps visit next weekend. Call closer to the time to confirm we are still free.”

Stop giving her so much time, if DH isn’t happy you just tell him you’ve spent all this time letting her upset you because it’s her culture, and having him tell you it’s just “little things.” Now, he can answer her calls and if she is upset he can tell her that it’s YOUR culture and not to be so silly over small things. It works both ways.

My experience is that "respect your elders" culture is vulnerable to being weaponised by bullies, and I suspect that's what your MIL is doing. It's a learnt behaviour as well.

what will happen when you push back is that she will play victim and then use her precious son against you, the evil DIL. (I should add, this dynamic doesn't have to have this particular gender configuration but that's the applicable one here.) It is best to have DH on side for this reason.

You can decide on whatever boundaries you want. The key is to be absolutely consistent. This type of bully can smell weakness and wavering. My mother and MIL are not like that but my best friend's mum is, and I've watched her in action. It's exhausting. The thing is, if you hold the boundary long enough, they learn you mean business and it's what a bully hates most. She will never be happy with it. She will be sulky. But eventually they learn the emotional manipulation doesn't work.

The other key point is not to get upset or emotional about it. You don't have to accept it, but say it calmly. They feed off the emotional reaction, and when they don't get it, they push harder. They want to see you upset, and when you are, to tell you you are being silly. Bullies can't stand not getting an emotion back. Sarcasm is all right and they hate it, but never being upset.

This is exactly what my Mum did with her mother who was an atrocious human being.

Years later, we learned the truth about the abuse Mum had received from her and it was far worse than we imagined. Mums MH issues were diagnosed as a direct result of her abusive childhood.

I'm so glad Mum snapped one day and stopped it by stopping the visits. It caused a shit storm for a while but Mum held firm and it was all done on her terms eventually. She did this because she could see history repeating itself. We used to panic when we saw her walking to our house. Mum decided to stop her invading our home that day.

When we were older, we chose to stay away from the nasty old cow.

My MIL is like this, I used to put up with it. Then I had therapy, and now I don't! I barely see her now which is great, your mental health, self-esteem and that of your children is far more important than some weird family dynamic.

You and your DH need to stick up for yourselves, do it for your kids if not you, as this toxicity will be passed onto them.

So I come from a culture where respect for elders is strong (I am ethnically Indian), and there is an expectation on lots of family gatherings etc. However OP you are being bullied and your life made much harder by your MIL. I would not stop the kids visiting but I would not visit her myself and I would not be slow in telling her why. After pregnancy one of my (male) relatives called me out at a family gathering for being fat. Even though he was elderly I spoke back. He was furious but I kept going. I did get a lot of support from other female relatives. Respect culture yes, respect bullying and intimidation, no.

“I will respect my elder when said elder acts in a respectful manner. I will not ever respect a bully. I expect to be respected in my own home and I expect to respected in front of my own children.”

Say it to yourself in the mirror 15 times before she comes over. Then to her face.

Blimey, she sounds awful! She needs to learn if she has nothing nice to say, she should say nothing. How immature.

What does your DH say? He should be speaking to her about it, if she’s giving her unsolicited opinions, especially in front of the kids.

I’d keep her at arms length if she can’t have some respect and politeness.

Also, do you plan to earn your own money once the kids are at school? So important to have your own life and income.

What I don't understand (well, I do) is that you've already got 3 children, they're here and right in front of her. Just what is the point in her saying to you the other day that you had them too close together? It's not like you are discussing your plans to conceive or anything - you've already had them! So her barbed comment about you being 'too sensitive' are at best irrelevant and at worst nasty.

I get that your DH, most DHs, want harmony between his mother and his wife but him sticking his head in the sand like this doesn't help

Sadly, OP, you're going to have to grow a spine if you want this to stop. Crying and lamenting that nothing can be done is going to ensure this goes on forever.