How much do I owe ex?

[Dumpedonmotheraday]

My partner of seven years ended our relationship today. We weren’t married and have no children together, but he has been an excellent step-parent to my three kids and I am heartbroken. When we met, he had been made redundant and as a result had 5 figure debts. Over the years, he since built a successful career, paid off his debts, and gained a degree, while I also progressed in my career and completed a master’s degree. He also inherited £20k, which he spent on a holiday—none of it came my way.

We are now struggling to reach a fair financial separation. He moved into my home in 2021, at which point I had already paid off nearly half of my mortgage. Initially, he paid £425 a month (which included bills), this later increased to £600 in 2022. About 20 months ago, when my mortgage was half paid off, he took over the £1k monthly mortgage payments and continued to pay around £400 towards bills. I paid for the big grocery shops.

Now, he’s asking for this £20k back, saying that’s what he has contributed to the mortgage. We never had a legal agreement in place, as neither of us wanted to spend money on lawyers. I want to do the morally right thing.

what do I owe him? I will have to sell up either way.

The other thing is even if he did the amount of mortgage he probably paid off give the house price increase is minimal most of it would be interest as well

The OP clearly says:

he took over the £1k monthly mortgage payments and continued to pay around £400 towards bills.

From the Law Society:

'If one person owns the property
You will not usually have any rights to the property if you don’t own the property or a share in it, unless you can prove you have:

• contributed to the deposit for the house or the mortgage payments'

https://www.lawsociety.org.uk/public/for-public-visitors/common-legal-issues/cohabitation-your-rights

'the court will look at the conduct between you, including contributions made to the house. These contributions need not necessarily be direct contributions to the purchase or mortgage, but should be more than what is ordinary in a cohabitation situation. So, if you have solely paid all the household bills it could be argued this is above and beyond what is expected of an ordinary cohabitee.'
https://www.familylawgroup.co.uk/news/what-rights-do-you-have-to-your-home-if-you-separate

'The court will require evidence that there was a common intention between you, either express or inferred from conduct, that you would share the property. This could include text messages or making a Will leaving your estates to each other or evidence that you have financially contributed to the property by way of mortgage payments'
https://www.familylawgroup.co.uk/news/cohabitation---how-does-separation-differ-when-you-are-not-married

The OP also says:

I’ll have to sell as I can’t afford the house without him

So it clearly was a beneficial arrangement.

All that does is prove the point that he hasn’t contributed to the house

These contributions need not necessarily be direct contributions to the purchase or mortgage, but should be more than what is ordinary in a cohabitation situation.

he hasn’t paid anything more than is ordinary. He paid £400 towards bills that are actually at least £800/900.

if he had paid £10k a month then that would be valid. £1400 is a very ordinary amount in a cohabitation situation.

He paid £400 towards bills that are actually at least £800/900.

I don't think OP has said anything about how much the bills cost. £800 is a pretty wild estimate, and that would still leave £600 - what's that for?

House insurance - do you mean buildings insurance? If it's not his house then why would he be expected to pay anything towards insuring it? Contents insurance, yes, but that's cheap, £5-10 a month typically. Even for combined contents and buildings insurance the average is about £23 per month.

Wear and tear contribution could be considered property upkeep which could be taken into account as evidence of a beneficial interest.

£800 on groceries for two people is a hell of a lot. He can't reasonably be expected to contribute to groceries for three children that aren't his.

if he had paid £10k a month then that would be valid

It would be up to a judge to decide what contribution would be considered reasonable. The example given in the information I quoted about is 'if you have solely paid all the household bills it could be argued this is above and beyond what is expected of an ordinary cohabitee'. for the past 20 months he's solely paid the mortgage so it could well be considered above and beyond what is expected considering most couples don't spend £2800 per month on bills and food.

I'm not sure why you're arguing with me. I didn't come up with this stuff, I'm just passing on information for OP to consider in response to her question of 'how much do I owe my ex?'

Litigation is very stressful and expensive, and if OP were to lose she'd potentially have to pay his costs on top. Which way the judge rules on these things is unpredictable. Hopefully it won't come to that, but posters saying 'you owe him nothing' and 'tell him he owes you money', and calling him a cheeky fucker isn't helpful and it could end up costing her a fortune if she takes this stance and he decides to make a claim. She needs proper legal advice.

So I paid the mortgage for 15 years from my bank account directly to the mortgage company and I was married. And when we got to court, it counted for shit.
Judges make decisions based on who they like on the day in court. And unless they make a legal error. Their judgement stands there’s no appealing against it.
To suggest there’s any rhyme or reason to this is nonsense.

However, the X is likely to spend an enormous amount of money even getting it in front of a judge which they probably don’t have if they’re bleating on about £20,000

Except they would because that is how the law works. Not on the deeds, no marriage, entitled to absolutely zero.

I think I’d be looking at how much it would have cost him to live for those 7 years, in terms of food, and share of the bills and then deduct what he has paid in total as I suspect the £1400 was only making up the shortfall from previous years when he wasn’t paying much

You are 100% wrong. He is not “legally entitled” to a single penny. Where are you getting that information from? They are not married, he is not on the deeds, he’s entitled to exactly zero. There is no such thing as “common law” husbands/wives. It doesn’t exist. The absolute most he could do is make a claim under Tolata but that is long, expensive and he wouldn’t get very far at all.

There is such a thing as a beneficial interest irrespective if not married or not on the deeds and you have financially contributed

the overwhelming majority of posters including myself are not legal experts and rather than just Dismiss his claims off the back of well meaning internet experts advice she need proper legal advice

many people and for all we know him have access to legal help through unions or insurance

so if I were her I certainly wouldn’t write it off as a non starter

Isnt the onus on him though to prove that was the intent that the agreement was that. Plus even though that is his mortgage payments that isn’t what is paid off.

the OP says the house price is still the same. If the mortgage when he started paying is compared to now is looked at that amount will be less than 20k! The actual interest he has accrued in 4 years won’t be much

@rwalker Even if they had married, a 2 year contribution towards a house is negligible. Obviously rights are accrued by both parties in that scenario but he’s not on the deeds and it never was his house. He’s really pushing it to think that 2 years of helping out should be repaid. Hes had 5 years of basically living off the OP! This has to be balanced out.

I agree. It's always better to negotiate to avoid court. Lawyers are extremely expensive.

If his name wasn't on the mortgage you owe him nothing. I rent, I don't take on the responsibility of a mortgage. My landlord doesn't owe me for the rent I pay towards their mortgage.

Someone more intelligent than me might know this better, but I'm.sure there's a stated case in law, basically to transfer it to your case, your ex is entitled to nothing, because he had not lived with you, he would have had to pay rent to live elsewhere. His names not on the mortgage and his finances were never at risk

Just putting on here - legally in England there is so such thing as common law marriage, and no automatic legal right to finances / property etc. I’m not therefore sure what he would take you to court for.

here’s a good link to the CAB guidance so you can check if anything is applicable..

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/family/living-together-marriage-and-civil-partnership/living-together-and-marriage-legal-differences/

You asked morally, not just legally, I would argue again that you don’t owe him anything. He has paid off debt and progressed his career while you’ve been together so financially is obviously stable enough. If he had shared his inheritance, maybe I’d suggest some return, but probably not. It sounds like you’ve had a balanced financial relationship and so there is no imbalance to redress.

I’m not saying your wrong

but legal implications and what’s morally right don’t always align

Write everything down (speadsheet techie term?) in date order with money involved, what he paid, what you paid. Find a solicitor who sounds sympathetic on the phone and book an appointment to find the truth instead of making yourself ill with worry.

Morally I think nothing. I have no idea where he would have lived so cheaply. I am assuming he's basing this £20k ask on the fact for the last 20 months he's paid £1000 thats been labelled as to the mortgage and £400 towards bills, but he'd have to pay rent or mortgage somewhere.

From 2018 to 2022 he lived in your home from £425 pcm and fron 2022 for £600pcm for about 18 months which means for 5 and half years his outgoing were on £31.5k or £6240 a year you've saved him more money than you've cost him.

I absolutely wouldn't sell my home, my children's home to give the man who's broken my heart £20k when based on those figures if you add it all up (last 20 months of £1400pcm, 18months of £600pcm, and 4years of £425pcm) he lived with you - his food bills and "rent" averaged £700 a month over the kast 7 years. For a comparison, 10 years ago my rent on a flat and council tax alone was £675 a month. I'd have considered it an absolute boon to live in a house all in for £700 a month, people normally only get it that good if they're at their parents paying board.

So I would give him zero. Or if i was very generous, and had some savings i could use i may offer him what I could afford so that he could leave sooner and afford a deposit on a place i might do that. But morally I don't think you owe him anything and the figures above are my rational.

I did the maths based roughly on OPs dates of 7 years together and he paid an average of £700 a month all in. Ten years ago my rent and council tax alone was £675 a month so I think he's had an absolute bargain

@rwalkercourts are concerned with the law though. His payments aren’t huge when you take into account his previous nearly free ride. Overall in the relationship he’s not contributed very much. Even in a marriage with no DC you don’t expect vast payouts from something you barely contributed to when it ends after a relatively short period of time. Women do need to wake up to the need to get an agreement though.

But OP can't give that without selling her and her children's home.

I completely disagree. Let him pay for a lawyer and pursue a claim if he thinks he can get anything

He is trying to pull the wool over your eyes. You owe him nothing. Please don't give him a cent. He is what mumsnetters love to call a Cheeky Fucker.

Get free legal advice to ease your fears.

In the absence of an agreement saying that he was lending you money you owe him nothing from a legal perspective. However, you are a decent person who wants to do the right thing morally. With that in mind, you probably do owe him the difference between reasonable rent and living costs and what he actually paid. If he was paying £1400 a month in total, then asking for £1,000 per month back is unreasonable. It is clear you offered him subsidies rent to begin with (when he had very little). Rent would also have risen above the 2022 agreed figure of £600/ month. I would suggest £800 / month is a reasonable sum for rent and a contribution towards your bills for that 20 month period, leaving a £600 excess. 600x20 is £12,000.

The next consideration is when and how this money should be paid. You don’t have it now and you can’t afford your mortgage without him, so none of it can be paid immediately. You need to look at options. Eg putting the house on the market and downsizing, getting a lodger, working overtime, reducing costs etc. when courts decide repayment terms they look at someone’s fine view situation and determine what should be paid on a monthly basis. It might be as little as £200 a month for five years. Until you’ve decided in selling the house or staying, you won’t know whether a lump sum will be possible, so a monthly payment may be the only way.

Lastly, you make it sound like a good relationship. Is couple’s counselling not a possibility?

You owe him nothing - think of your kids too and don’t pay him.

I would offer him £5 or £10k max and tell him that's all you have or take me to court