He invaded my space/was creepy. I feel angry - even days afterwards.

[septembernights]

Hi,

I was debating posting this, but I can't keep it in any longer and feel like I need a safe space to vent/question if I am being unreasonable.

The other day, after visiting my goddaughter, I had some time to kill - before heading out for dinner. I went to a hotel bar as I was in the city. It's a bar I've been going to for 20+ years. I had my work bag (thinking I was going to head to the office once free) but because dinner was nearby to where my goddaughter and her mother were - I decided to work at the bar. It's a lovely establishment, not loud etc... I also had a book in my bag.

I get to the bar and immediately 'feel' a man opposite staring at me. I shook it off and got my laptop/book out. Still, I could feel him staring. He then looked like he was leaving - great! He ended up coming over to me, saying hello - and asking if I could watch his stuff for him... except his stuff was on the other side of the bar...? I said 'I'm sure your stuff will be fine - no one is going to steal it!'

He then came back, got his belongings, sat next to me and offered me some chocolates - which was in one of the bags. I politely declined. He didn't relent/move. He acknowledged that he noticed the staff were familiar with me and said this place must be 'my local' - as it was his too. Great(!)

He ordered himself a drink - and offered me one. I said no. He then kept trying to chat - and after some polite interaction and I explained that I had work to do. He apologised and then touched me on my shoulder and in one movement - moved his hands down to mine and apologised again. I recoiled away from him. He must have thought he was being a gentleman in the way he was profusely apologising, but it really didn't feel like that.

I said I was going to move - at which point he proceeded to wrap up/leave. He asked for my number - I said no - and then said: 'Not to worry, since this is your local - I'm sure I'll see you in here again soon, no doubt...' - but he said it with a smile. He told me to 'take care' as he left. I found out he settled my check/bill - which annoyed me. I am capable of buying my own wine. I don't want to 'owe' him anything should I ever see him again.

It has been a few days now and I am mad - as in really angry. I'm angry that I wasn't stronger - even though he didn't do anything so awful. I feel like I can't go back to my place again. The older I get, the less patience I have. I wish I had the guts to speak up more and could have told him to F off. I'm tired of being 'nice' for fear of a man getting angry/violent.

Sorry if this is nonsensical - I'm just angry and raging. I'm getting my period next week, so maybe I am PMS-ing. But AIBU to feel angry days later? Why didn't I speak up? Why didn't I just move from the outset?

Please no abusive comments. I think I am just sensitive at the moment. :(

Did you miss the part when I said his behaviour wasn’t okay?

I know. You're right. It does get rid of most of them but then there are a few who are on some kind of persistent, entitled manosphere and see you as some kind of right.

Really there's no way other than to actually aggressively say to them 'Go away and leave me alone!' And wait for the 'oh I was just trying to be nice' attempts at a guilt trip.

What are you on about? I said his behaviour wasn’t okay. I don’t think anyone drinking at a bar by themselves doing work on a laptop is very professional - no matter their gender - you went there I didn’t differentiate. Let’s not conflate the two. Why don’t you check your internalised misogyny - women also drink at bars and do business that way.

I’n case you're unaware, if this happens again, ask the bar staff for Angela and the manager will discreetly deal with him.

Some of them love the ‘challenge’! And even that doesn’t work and makes them more eager

Fwiw I had a lot of this in the town where I'm from. Meals out with friends would be gatecrashed by desperate men and once the management of the place had to chase them away. One mam asked for my number and I said no. His response was 'are you serious?'. These men feel entitled to us! I went for coffee with a friend recently and put red lipstick on. As I was putting it on, I was asking myself 'am I doing the right thing putting this on?'. Of course, a man came over and sat beside me and my friend in the middle of the day and started asking if he could see me again and I felt so angry and told him to go back over to his friends. I spent the rest of the coffee date with my friend wishing I hadn't worn the red lipstick, which is so silly!

My mother always said to me that men will take anything as a come-on. She might have omitted the word 'some' from that sentence but certain men feel that when a woman is by herself of with female friends, she is suitably isolated and the field is ripe for picking. They make me so angry

No, but I think you did.

Were these men English?

No I get it. You were clearly busy, working/“working”/whatever and gave plenty of signs you were not interested in speaking to this man. I do think that however you responded he wasn’t going to just fuck off. Including if you literally said fuck off. He would have stayed to tell you what a bitch you are most likely.

I was having a conversation with my teenage daughter a while back about why so many men and boys don’t take no for an answer. And she’s literally never interested in them/doesn’t give off any kind of signal she’s interested on account of her being gay. How many of these guys have been told at some point “if the girl says no to dating you just keep trying”? I’d bet an awful lot. What we need to be telling boys is “if a girl says no to dating you, then leave her alone. She’s made her choice and that’s that.”

No I didn’t miss that I wrote it or what I wrote or when I wrote it.

I really don’t think so, with a laptop, you see a million people in hotel bars doing that - I’m sure the odd one is ‘working’ but the odds aren’t good.

Anyway, you are right to feel angry and invaded OP. Channel it by deciding what you will do to get shot quicker next time - not that’s it’s your responsibility but needs must - next time ask him to move immediately and go straight to the staff if he doesn’t.

I would also write to the manager, saying that you are a regular and describing him and the harassment you experienced, and suggesting that if he is a regular the bar staff be aware of this. I don’t think this will achieve anything other than making you feel better, but that is a win.

This happened to me in a gay bar of all places. The bloke actually said "you're not being very nice to me" when I turned my back on him towards my friends. I was actually polite but gave very short one word awnsers then turned around. Nowhere is safe from these people.

Also this

Try polite but icy once, and if that doesn’t work go straight to cartoon fury - a full on stand up and fuck off you pervert before I call the staff and the police - delivered close to his face, and if that doesn’t work (it almost always will) then scream loudly and push him away, which will get him thrown out.

I am not a sociopath or even generally rude, but I have spend years travelling alone - all over the world, mostly for work - and this is what works.

(I have also had some great nights with random men I’ve met in bars, for clarity, so I’m not the fun police)

Don't apologise!
I just hate this. I'm 21, blonde, "traditionally" attractive with, I'm told, a "gooorgeous" smile, and I can't sit alone ANYWHERE without being interrupted every few minutes!
And they all think they're original and have a chance with me, even the creepy elderly ugly ones!
(Sorry if i sound pretentious a h, but I'm sure many of you know what I mean.)

This is an interesting observation & I think pretty accurate tbh & close to what other posters were saying about men assuming you’re there (in a hotel bar anyway) for a hook up to (which I took offence to initially). It reminds me of a time many moons ago when on a work trip (abroad admittedly) and using my free time in my hotel pool to have a swim & catch some sun. A older guy made a bee line for me & opened with “saw the water bottle - cabin crew right? Which airline?” I was a bit dumbfounded & cldnt believe that something as ubiquitous as a bottle of water could possibly be the universal code for cabin crew on their stopover & up for sex!! It was clear he thought I spoke the same code, & after complimenting me on my bikini & telling me he was a pilot seemed put out when I didn’t play along. It made me also question whether I’d given off without realising it some kind of signal that I was up for stopover sex when I was innocently trying to deconpress from my work trip (not in the same hotel as any of my work delegates I should hasten to add) & started questioning /berating myself for being in a bikini. So police & question my behaviour & victim blame myself for doing nothing unreasonable. So I do think hotel bars in particular may be as you say where men get even more predatory/prepared to harass/play away/pull especially in countries foreign to those men too.

For the OP though his insistence that it’s his local too & his act of dominance of paying her bill would be enough to make me never step a foot in there again for fear of him interpreting it as some kind of unspoken acceptance of his advances. Horrible territorial & uncomfortable behaviour coupled with the touching sounds like he’s read the Andrew Tate manual on how to pull & probably walked out with a massive boost to his ego for being an alpha. Yuk.

No, why?

You said she wasn't working just because she was at a bar. That is irrational. There is nothing at all unprofessional with doing work on a laptop at a bar any more than there is doing work on a laptop at a cafe.

I was with friends at a pub quiz and this younger man came over to answer our team questions (we had to swap) - it was clear he was interested in me and it made me really uncomfortable at how brazen he was - singling me out, staring at me, complimenting me etc. We said we were school mums in conversation and he later asked if we would go to another quiz he frequented with his friends on another day of the week. We reminded him we had kids etc so little spare time and he told us to bring them along! It was an evening quiz.

Totally right. But she was drinking wine at the time and drinking and office working isn’t professional. Pretty strict rules at any office I know about not doing that.

Just let it drop, FFS.

Sure I’ll drop it when people stop questioning me and responding. It works both ways. FFS.

What an utter creep!

Sadly, there are far too many of them around and it's almost always men on women.

These types of men seem to feel entitled to do whatever the fuck they want, and apparently don't see that "no means no!" "No" is apparently some challenge thrown down for them to get round and so they persist.

It is predatory behaviour and I would definitely ask the hotel/bar manager for help. They do have the reputation of the establishment to consider and do understand that women make up a reasonable proportion of their client base.

This sort of shit does make me so angry.

Erm what do you mean a nuisance? Because if every manager jumped in between any man talking to a woman in a pub, they’d have no returning customers pretty quickly. They have a duty to, as far as reasonably possible, protect anyone in their premises from violence and harassment - this would include calling the police, not necessarily flinging themselves in harms way. This man just talked to this woman, who, might I add, talked right back to him!! She didn’t like him but why on earth would a manager or staff member think to intervene. And if she said she found him creepy, what would they do? Go up to him and say ‘hey, just so you know, that woman who you just had a conversation with and have now stopped talking to, yeah..she doesn’t want to fuck you.” ….to what ends? They’d already stopped talking and he was weird but she’s admitted she didn’t actually do much to show she didn’t want to talk.

An experienced bar manager would have discreetly prompted him to leave as he was making a customer feel uncomfortable and if the man was an asshole about it, would have used security to make him leave.