He invaded my space/was creepy. I feel angry - even days afterwards.

[septembernights]

Hi,

I was debating posting this, but I can't keep it in any longer and feel like I need a safe space to vent/question if I am being unreasonable.

The other day, after visiting my goddaughter, I had some time to kill - before heading out for dinner. I went to a hotel bar as I was in the city. It's a bar I've been going to for 20+ years. I had my work bag (thinking I was going to head to the office once free) but because dinner was nearby to where my goddaughter and her mother were - I decided to work at the bar. It's a lovely establishment, not loud etc... I also had a book in my bag.

I get to the bar and immediately 'feel' a man opposite staring at me. I shook it off and got my laptop/book out. Still, I could feel him staring. He then looked like he was leaving - great! He ended up coming over to me, saying hello - and asking if I could watch his stuff for him... except his stuff was on the other side of the bar...? I said 'I'm sure your stuff will be fine - no one is going to steal it!'

He then came back, got his belongings, sat next to me and offered me some chocolates - which was in one of the bags. I politely declined. He didn't relent/move. He acknowledged that he noticed the staff were familiar with me and said this place must be 'my local' - as it was his too. Great(!)

He ordered himself a drink - and offered me one. I said no. He then kept trying to chat - and after some polite interaction and I explained that I had work to do. He apologised and then touched me on my shoulder and in one movement - moved his hands down to mine and apologised again. I recoiled away from him. He must have thought he was being a gentleman in the way he was profusely apologising, but it really didn't feel like that.

I said I was going to move - at which point he proceeded to wrap up/leave. He asked for my number - I said no - and then said: 'Not to worry, since this is your local - I'm sure I'll see you in here again soon, no doubt...' - but he said it with a smile. He told me to 'take care' as he left. I found out he settled my check/bill - which annoyed me. I am capable of buying my own wine. I don't want to 'owe' him anything should I ever see him again.

It has been a few days now and I am mad - as in really angry. I'm angry that I wasn't stronger - even though he didn't do anything so awful. I feel like I can't go back to my place again. The older I get, the less patience I have. I wish I had the guts to speak up more and could have told him to F off. I'm tired of being 'nice' for fear of a man getting angry/violent.

Sorry if this is nonsensical - I'm just angry and raging. I'm getting my period next week, so maybe I am PMS-ing. But AIBU to feel angry days later? Why didn't I speak up? Why didn't I just move from the outset?

Please no abusive comments. I think I am just sensitive at the moment. :(

The exact same happened to me. Also 30 years ago. I was alone in the carriage with him. It was very scary. I got off the train and told the guards. He’d got off too and hid on the platform. Police were called and we were both taken to the station. I was kept there for a while and asked some questions. I was told that he had been really reasonable to voluntarily go to the station. I was made to feel in the wrong. Nothing was done.

Bar staff have a responsibility?! Are you serious? No they don’t. Literally in no way and you clearly have no idea the shit and dangerous situations bar staff get put in just by existing. There is no oath of the bar tender where you swear to accept minimum wage in return to being protector of the community. That’s the police you’re thinking of. And where do you think they get the training for ‘different ways of doing this?’ - not enough they have to train for bomb and terrorist threats, you now want them to take courses in negotiation and conflict resolution too? And after your bar staff hero has swooped to your rescue, and you’ve left and are cosy in your bed, who do you think has the creep outside at closing waiting for them? You can ask them for help as fellow human beings but ‘responsible’? No they are not.

Strong disagree. Pestering of other customers is definitely something hospitality staff don’t like. I worked as a duty manager for years and would actively watch out for this. I’d have visited the table to check on you.

In the US it’s much more common for men to send a drink over ‘to the lady’ but to sit at a table uninvited is something staff should be alert to. And I’d agree he’s possibly done it before, and cruises hotel bars to seek out women.

I’d email or (better) call in and ask to speak to the manager on duty.

i understand that was unsettling, annoying but to think about it days later!? and holding on to so much anger??! just get over it!
Next time, tell him you are not interested and to leave you alone, full stop!
I will not be changing my habits because of one unpleasant lonely man! Get a grip!

@SallyDraperGetInHere Yeah, and I would be alert to it too. I would go and intervene. I would be the one getting bottled. I have been. More than once. More than multiple times have I been on the receiving end of some tosser because I was the manager or the bar staff or whichever. BUT that is not my ‘responsibility’, and 100% not my staff’s ‘responsibility’. It is actually the police who sign up for that responsibility and anyone trying to convince the general public to believe that untrained people should hold the position of tackling antisocial behaviour is bang out of order.

A manager will be used to dealing with this kind of shit, but it would actually be good for people to acknowledge how this is putting them in danger too, not just expect it as part of their role! especially not staff. I mean, do you expect a bus driver to step in and help solve a fight on the bus, sure, but it isn’t their responsibility. They’re paid to drive a bloody bus. Same for bar staff. In fact, I dare say there’s no responsibility full stop because there absolutely should not be behaviour that demands them to intervene in the first place. The righteous and snobby disregard for hospitality workers is just awful. All service industry actually. I include healthcare workers in that too-always expected to fling themselves in danger’s way with no thanks.

I would encourage any bar staff or similar role holder to call the police if they feel in any way uncomfortable. Don’t feel you need to martyr yourself or put yourself at risk because you’re being pressured by the general public to take on a role you’re not paid for or trained for. And no one should look down on someone because they’re too scared or out of their depth to do so.

Honestly, I think you’re thinking of worst case scenarios. It doesn’t have to be a conflict situation. A light ‘everything alright here?’ is very effective. I’m sorry you’ve experienced hostility and aggression; it shouldn’t happen for sure. But I’d hold to the view that the culture of a premises, and particularly hotels, is generally that customers who come in are to be protected and cherished so that they come back. That includes saying things like ‘let me drop those drinks over to you’ so you know nobody’s slipping in a pill en route to a table; enquiring ‘shall I keep these tabs separate?’; lingering at a table to lightly evaluate a situation; not saying things like ‘what’s your room number?’ in front of other customers; and even watching out for someone following a woman into a lift. I’m sure you picked up on some of these if you’ve worked in hospitality. I wouldn’t call it policing, but I would see it as part of the hospitality experience.

I get the impression, and I could be wrong, that you’ve worked in good hotels and clearly you are well trained. In America?

I totally agree with you. Unfortunately in the uk, in anywhere expect actually nice hotels, the behaviour is shit. And yeah lots of nice people won’t have a clue how shit the behaviour is because they live in their own little bubble but ask any bar worker in any city in the uk and they will tell you. And no not every encounter needs to escalate but can you not see how people using the word ‘responsibility’ puts an unrealistic expectation and demand on people who are in a low paid stressful job and who (even in nice hotels) have to put up with people’s bad manners and bad behaviour regularly.

Ive worked in an entire range of venue, both uk and abroad (not America) so am not just speaking from oh I worked in a rough bar once point of view. But the word responibility is being used sweepingly for what’s expected of bar staff in any venue and I’m not comfortable with that. people using it aren’t discriminating between good hotels, where the behaviour is likely to be 98% handleable with a quiet word, and a night club or pub where it could actually escalate quickly. They also aren’t discriminating between behaviour level (a bit of a creep guy and a full blown crazy person) - it is being implied it is their responsibility full stop.

I think we are probably more aligned in our views than might have first come across. Maybe where we land on common ground is that everyone wants a safe place to have a drink and to work, and sometimes that can mean a quiet word to a customer whose behaviour isn’t a good fit. From the OP’s post, I did conjure up a mental image of a classy city centre hotel bar and put myself in situ, but you’re right, it’s not a one size fits all solution. I’d hate the OP to feel ‘oh well, can’t go there again’ hence my suggestion she go in and speak to them. And they may well say ‘so? What do you expect us to do?’ Or they may say ‘thanks a million, sorry about that.’

You’re right. And I think it’s worth the op mentioning it too - and, as another op said, that it may be this man regularly does this, and her bringing it up with the hotel would help them give him the heave ho.

My issue is definitely with the pressure and expectations placed on staff (and the awful behaviour of some people…mainly men) rather than anything else.

If she does report this to them, I hope the hotel handles it with the level of sophistication and care I am certain you would.

"You are intruding on my time and space. Please leave me alone".

Works for me. You don't owe him an explanation for why you don't want him there. It's not his right to take your time.

What on earth have I just read? Getting a laptop out in a bar doesn’t make you a sex worker FFS. What sort of world do you live in where that is a reasonable conclusion that empowers a man to ignore a woman’s boundaries?

How do you change your vote?

Pretty shocked at the assumptions that being solo in a bar equals you’re a sex worker or seeking hook ups?!! And it’s so easy to say you’d tell someone where to go in hindsight not so easy at the time when they could flip it back on you & claim they were only being friendly or worse get aggressive or follow you later. How do we feel more safe & also assertive at the same time?

Hey OP. Don’t beat yourself up. I think you handles yourself well. He was being a dick - anyone with an ounce of awareness would know that you brushed him off, repeatedly. It’s him, not you. Perhaps something like "what part of no do you find hard to understand". "I said I’m not interested, is that too difficult to comprehend". "I’m not interested, do you wish to leave or must I?".

What a persistent creep.

I am sorry to say it but I think it’s hotels. The idea that you are a lone woman and there are beds upstairs (that you might want to use with them!) sends some men doollally.

I sometimes travel for work and, as soon as I am walking solo into a hotel with a wheely case, I know that my ‘eyeing up’ rate and ‘approach’ rate goes right up.

But I think hotel staff are aware that it can be a problem. I once came downstairs to the hotel bar-restaurant and it was literally a sea of men sitting around in groups (a business-type hotel outside a small city). I seemed to be the only woman there that night! The bar man took my meal order and then suggested that I might like to sit at a table around the side of the bar, which I was happy to accept. But in some ways that situation felt safer as I think that men would peer-regulate each other in that situation.

Newsflash, you may be a strong cool girl, not all of us are. When a woman feels violated or upset and feels a loss of power, it can disturb you for days (if not weeks). It is completely normal to feel anger at that loss of power and violation and wishing there was something you could have done.

By re-voting again on the correct one. It will cancel out the wrong one.

Men talk business and do business deals at the bar. Why is it any different for women? I'd check you're internalised misogyny there.

Oh God he was a bit of a desperate weirdo nothing actually happened .you're holding onto anger about it. Jesus get grip.

A grip sorry

Repeating what I said to someone else, Newsflash, you may be a strong cool girl, not all of us are. When a woman feels violated or upset and feels a loss of power, it can disturb you for days (if not weeks). It is completely normal to feel anger at that loss of power and violation and wishing there was something you could have done. OP does not need to 'get a grip', you need to get some empathy.

Mmmmmm why does her working make his hitting on her appropriate?

Fucking disgusting men.

all I have to say.

And no one give me that ‘not all men’ crap,
yep not all men but it is always men.

@septembernights angry for you. Your anger is valid!!!

Well you’re a delight aren’t you!

Well I'm sorry but I think it's a over reaction. But like u say some women are different, what upsets one person won't upset another.