To think SAHM with young DC deserve more respect

[CheekyFawn]

I work full time but currently on maternity leave looking after my 5 months old baby and a toddler DS who is 3 yo.
I just don't know where my time goes. Between breastfeeding baby, getting DS ready for preschool and tidying up the house, cooking meals etc, it just feels like there is no time at all even to have 5 mins of coffee break. I feel it was much better when I was at work couple of months ago when DS was in nursery that I used to get at least a lunch break for an hour or 30 mins at least or time between meetings to have a coffee and look at my phone in peace. I imagine this is I think how a day looks for SAHM with young DC and it's bloody hard. Many people just assume they are not doing much but I think they deserve more respect.

I don't agree with you there, because lots of women feel judged for their choices, whether they work or not. So it is absolutely a societal issue.

To be perfectly honest though, we have all of that while working full time.

Kids are at a great after-school, which helps enormously. I am very organised with cooking and cook from scratch every night. Activities are either in after-school or after 5.30. We are lucky that we don't have a long commute.

We have a cleaner now, but prior to that my answer was always to lower the housework standards. 😂

We've been lucky to be able to organise our lives to do this, but some of that was deliberate choices and tbh, it doesn't seem to be terribly unusual where I am.

Not that I think there's anything wrong with your choice, but these things can be more doable than they seem at first.

'choices aren't made in a vacuum and it affects everyone who lives in society, especially women.'

That old chestnut. Us silly women who can't be trusted to make our own decisions because society has bullied us into whatever decision we make. Sorry, I don't buy into that crap and like to credit women with a bit more gumption and awareness than that.

A woman who chooses to be a SAHM is in no way affecting society en masse.

I agree that it isn't unusual for people to be able to balance these different aspects of their lives effectively.

I get that there are jobs where this just doesn't work though.

By your definition 'feeling judged' qualifies in making something a societal issue? Practically everything is a societal issue then.

Society influences us all. Some things are ingrained from birth. That's how society and societal norms work.

Women aren't silly but of course they are influenced by society.

If women were so heavily influenced by society, we wouldn't be doing completely different things or making completely different choices.

The individual character trumps societal influence.

You working doesn't affect my life and me not working doesn't affect yours.

Well, a lot of things are indeed societal issues, I suppose.

Whether you like it or not, societal expectations do play a huge role in the beliefs that people hold and the choices that they make. And political decisions also have an impact on those choices, e.g. around the extent to which childcare costs should be subsidised by the state, the extent to which parents in receipt of certain benefits should be required to look for work etc. I'm struggling as to how you could see this as anything other than a societal issue tbh.

What is your definition of a societal issue, I wonder?

A societal issue is something that negatively impacts or creates an issue for society.

Choosing to be a SAHM does not meet this criteria. I'm sure the self professed feminists of MN have other ideas though....

Everyone is heavily influenced by society, not just women.

Of course it does. The fact that women are seen by society to be the default parent absolutely affects me as a working mother and that's just one of many examples.

Interesting that that's how you're defining the issue and interpreting the debate. That isn't how I see it at all.

To make my own position clear, I don't think that people choosing to be SAHPs is a societal problem in any way. I genuinely don't care how other people choose to split responsibilities within their families, and if they have alighted on a model that works for them and theirs, that's grand.

I do think that there are societal issues around the gender pay gap; around women often being marginalised in the workplace because they are frequently seen as the default for taking on the bulk of caring responsibilities; around women often feeling guilty and inadequate no matter what they choose to do; around men often finding it much more difficult than their female counterparts to ask for and secure flexibility in the workplace; around women typically losing out more than men financially as a result of having children; around women on low incomes being unable to stay in work because of the cost of childcare; around the woefully inadequate support that is available to parents who SAH to be carers for disabled children; around workplaces needing to become more flexible to accommodate the needs of all workers etc. And many other issues.

I'm not saying that SAHPs are responsible for any of the above. Of course they aren't, because these are societal issues. Which is kind of my point.

I have never, ever felt moved to check out how many posts any one individual has written on a particular topic.

And why do you think only sahms should get to posts about sah? Bit discriminatory? Do you just want an echo chamber?

I'm more than well. I'm not obsessing about post counts in order to score points.

We all spend time with our children at home. Whether you like it or not, it's not exclusive to sahms. We even have evenings and early mornings with them, fancy that!

The vast majority of women spend a prolonged period of time at home with their children when they are on maternity leave which is OP's situation and why she started the thread in the first place.

It absolutely isn't exclusive to SAHM's.

No, you're still the one looking silly and petty. Don't be ridiculous, of course I know there's stats of sorts; it's just literally never entered my mind to check up on other posters. I never check on posters' other threads or posts either. I'm not interested! I think it's weird, creepy behaviour! I guess you've been checking my post count too?

So what if I have posted here more than you? I don't require your permission?

"Howling" - and you talk about anyone looking silly?!!

It's a stupid premise. We spend our early mornings, evenings, weekends, leave and maternity leave FT with our children and it's beyond ridiculous to try to patronise us and tell us we don't know what it's like to be at home with the children! Mad!

I breastfed my eldest two DC until they were each a year old and breastfed my youngest until 22 months. I'd gone back to work when they were 6, 7 months (this was when maternity leave was 18 weeks and I extended my time off as I was breastfeeding) and 10 months. Returning to work is really not a barrier and they adjust very easily.

There were no activities available to me locally during maternity leave, or if there were, I wasn't aware of them.

I think the only person who missed out because I was a wohm was me, because I had very little time to myself, and always felt under pressure, but it was the best choice for me.

I dropped my children to school every single day, bar a few times when DH was around to do it. I couldn't pick them up, but I collected them from the minder's and took them all to activities. We had ballet, guides, scouts, swimming and piano and a few other bits and bobs they tried out along the way. Most of their afterschool activities were after 6pm anyway.

Homework was done at the minder's. Mine just sat down to their freshly prepared dinner a bit later. We also kept weekends free so we all had some down-time.

Now tell me again why your scenario is "superior" to mine?!

Sorry, that's on you. If we dropped this 'contact napper', 'velcro baby' cutsie nonsense, you would find things a lot easier.
This narrative about cold tea and not being able to go to the toilet alone is completely alien to anyone aged 50+.
It's all nonsense.
Your baby needs to get used to being put down and your toddler needs to get used to the word 'no'.
Why are you so fearful of upsetting your child momentarily to take command of the situation?
I sometimes despair about how this generation of babies who have never known discomfort, never been upset and never been in second place will turn out.

Yes, you have. You have tried to shame her into silence by flagging up the number of posts she has made on the subject. Why else would you stoop to those lengths?

Of course SAHM is a "societal issue", if not simply because these women are economically inactive. It's also a "societal issue" when you have SAHMs belittling WOHMs for their choice!

Exactly - the person who benefits first and foremost by your being at home FT is you! Just own it.

@MerlinsBeard1

A societal issue is something that negatively impacts or creates an issue for society.

It doesn’t have to be something which has a negative impact: it’s anything which changes or influences the way people live. That can have positive or negative consequences or ambiguous ones or a mixture of both and all.

The decision around to work or not has massive ramifications for the individual and the family. It can have societal impact if large numbers of people change their behaviour.

Childcare, child rearing and the economics of the family are huge things, for many people the most important thing in their lives. I don’t understand why people are upset or uncomfortable with the idea that this is “societal”.

If it wasn’t societal threads about it wouldn’t run to 30+ pages. People care about it.

The whole activity thing is a more recent phenomenon I think, my Mum’s always saying how none of this stuff was around in the ‘80s. The pro for me was attending some helped me structure my day, do something fun somewhere else without worrying about putting a wash on etc, and getting to chat to some really lovely people.

However, I remain slightly sceptical in the sense that depending on whether they are free or paid they can get very expensive. They also could be at awkward times around naps etc. I think they are an example of how much more structured childhood generally is now (which is not necessarily a good thing! I had a lot more freedom as a child, roaming around climbing trees unattended with friends from a young age).

I hope you have more time for yourself now after working hard at many things.

My Mum completely agrees with you!

She used to pop me in a playpen with some toys & ignore me while she cleaned the house, went to the loo, did whatever she needed to. We were expected to behave during regular visits to elderly relatives houses, if we were bored whilst adults talked then tough 😂

I wouldn't ignore a baby and clean the whole house but I really don't see an issue with popping a baby in the playpen with some toys so a mother can have a wee.