To think SAHM with young DC deserve more respect

[CheekyFawn]

I work full time but currently on maternity leave looking after my 5 months old baby and a toddler DS who is 3 yo.
I just don't know where my time goes. Between breastfeeding baby, getting DS ready for preschool and tidying up the house, cooking meals etc, it just feels like there is no time at all even to have 5 mins of coffee break. I feel it was much better when I was at work couple of months ago when DS was in nursery that I used to get at least a lunch break for an hour or 30 mins at least or time between meetings to have a coffee and look at my phone in peace. I imagine this is I think how a day looks for SAHM with young DC and it's bloody hard. Many people just assume they are not doing much but I think they deserve more respect.

You absolutely do seem obsessed with SAHMs. Gaslighting me doesn't change the fact you appear on these threads spouting the same things like a broken record. We get it, YOU DON'T WANT TO BE A SAHM.

Ah so you've NEVER been a SAHM, yet you have the audacity to say people are commenting from experience (except you aren't) and assume that I am not too. INCREDIBLE!

Taking annual leave or having the weekend off now counts as being a SAHM? 😂😂😂

At what point have I said I have never been a working mum. Are you quite well?

Well that is rather hilarious considering you are on here more often than me!! Actually howling at that one!

It takes all of 5 seconds to use the search facility. Did you actually think I individually trawled through 700 odd posts? Now you really do look silly.

@MerlinsBeard1

Simply utilising the search feature available to us all. So I'm the creepy one rather than the person who isn't a SAHM appearing on practically every thread about SAHMs for several years. OK.

Yes we can all use the search feature but I still don't understand why you are saying you have to be a SAHM to have a view on SAHMs.

Are people also not allowed to post about education if they're not a teacher? Or about politics if they're not a politician or about health if they're not a GP? Are you one of these people who believes non parents shouldn't be on Mumsnet?

This is a big, difficult and sometimes controversial issue which affects many of us and we all have a right to have a view on it. You don't get to tell @SouthLondonMum22 or anyone else what they can and can't post about.

I agree that it’s a ‘big, difficult and sometimes controversial issue’.

I am really keen to listen and understand viewpoints of all mothers and non-mothers on this.

I am a huge bookworm! Since becoming a mother, I have been fascinated by the different ways we approach things. I have done a great deal of reading around the subject, and am sharing some of the most fascinating I’ve read in case they are of use to anyone else trying to make sense of their own personal situation:

‘Fair Play’ by Eve Rodsky (loads of practical advice to help couples divide up tasks in all areas of life in a way that is mutually fair).

’Heading Home’ by Shani Orgad (examines societal tensions and reasons why women with highly successful careers ‘opt out’).

’Perfect Madness’ by Judith Warner (interesting commentary on the modern prevalence of anxious parenting. This has given me a lot of food for thought!)

’Unfinished Business’ by Anne-Marie Slaughter (parenting teenagers).

’The Motherhood Penalty’ by Joeli Brearley (awesome campaigner for mothers).

’The Highly Sensitive Parent’ and ‘The Highly Sensitive Child’ by Elaine N. Aron (I would describe both myself and my son as HSPs, always knew this but never had a proper label for it- these books describe us exactly, and have really helped me).

Honestly unless you home educate what is the difference in terms of what you do for your kids as a SAHP vs a working parent once they are school age? If it’s before school age how is is any different to maternity leave or what you’d do with your kids at a weekend as a WOHP? I did part time for a while when kids were both in nursery and honestly can’t imagine I’d have done anything much differently if I was home with them all the time. We did a mix of days out and jobs round the house. It was quite good fun on the whole and I’d always encourage the both doing a bit of part time idea.

I think if it’s before school age being a SAHP can give you greater control over certain elements of your child’s life without you having to work towards a strict back to work deadline. People experience pressure differently, and it was beneficial for my mental health to take certain things at my own pace (e.g. exclusive breast feeding until we reached a mutual stopping point, continuing certain activities in the community we were still enjoying, etc.) It goes without saying that not all Mums want to breastfeed/can still continue activities on a day off/around work etc. I feel I always have to qualify my examples now in case I upset anyone).

For school age, I can only comment on my own children, but my DS (6) is at an extremely academic school. They work him really hard, and he is exceeding across the board. This suits him, but man is he tired and done after school! I like him having the option to chill out in a very gentle, unstructured way at the park or at home and having a shorter day, as I think longer days, certainly every day, would be detrimental to his overall mood and well-being. This of course will vary school by school, child by child.

I agree whole heartedly that parents who home educate are doing far more once they are at school, they really have taken on a lot themselves!

@OutandAboutMum1821

Thank you for that reading list! I've read a couple of those but still so many more I want to read.

It's a massive issue. For some women it's the most important choice you will make, for others it isn't a choice at all. The reason why many of us find it difficult and sensitive is precisely because its so difficult.

I do think respect and empathy is important and we should not be quick to judge others but that doesn't mean, in my view, that we don't get to have an opinion or a perspective on it.

You’re welcome 📚😊

Absolutely agree about a distinct lack of choice for many. I try and speak to as many parents on the school run, partly as a governor to understand their needs, but also as I do love to chat 😂 I’ve spoken to mothers IRL who are SAHMs but didn’t want to be (priced out of previous jobs/couldn’t make the practicalities work, especially with larger families). I’ve spoken to working mums who cannot afford to reduce their hours and who don’t get much support from anyone.

I’ve also spoken to Mums on a range of benefits, including disability benefits. Some have been treated appallingly be ex-partners, some are working or who have partners who work, but in lower paid jobs, so their hope of buying their own home is non-existent. 1 Mum who can barely walk is doing all the school runs around working 3 different low paid jobs, she literally limps in visible pain, whilst her partner is at home doing nothing. We have a good laugh on the school run, she is lovely and I feel really cross on her behalf. It has been a real eye-opener on the school run for sure 🥲

Well, yes and no. You probably do have more discretionary "free time" than I do on a day to day basis, but the fact is that we all have 24 hours in the day, no more and no less.

I have chosen to spend some of that time at work, doing a job that I enjoy, that I consider to be rewarding and meaningful, and that gives me a sense of satisfaction and achievement

You have made different choices about how to use that time.

We are both "doing what we want". We just want different things.

And yes, there is certainly a lack of choice for some - whether that is women being forced back to work because they can't afford not to or forced to stay at home because they can't afford the childcare. Those of us who have been lucky enough to have a choice should be grateful for that!

I was very lucky when dd was little in that my office was only a 2 minute walk from home and I was able to pop back and breastfeed etc if needed, and actually carried on breastfeeding until dd was nearly 3. Likewise, I was able to flex my schedule so that I worked mornings and evenings, so I had from plenty of time to carry on doing activities with her etc. We did have a lovely nanny in the mornings, who remains a close friend many years later, and dh had dd in the evenings.

We were also lucky enough not to need to use wrap around care when dd was in school - dh and I were able to share all of the pick ups and drop offs between us. However, dd is like me and always likes to be on the go, so as a primary school child, she was always very jealous of the kids who got to go to after school club!😂

I haven't said 'you have to be a SAHM to have a view on SAHMs.'

I also haven't said people can't post what they like, I've simply highlighted the apparent obsession some pp have for this topic.

Have you actually read my comments?

Things like being able to drop them off at school and pick them up. Taking them to after school activities. Having plenty of time to do fun things because all the housework is done during the day so evenings and weekends are totally free. Sitting down to a freshly prepared dinner at 5:30. All things that couldn't be done whilst I was working.

I guess a lot of this depends on the extent to which people can work flexibly- I didn't find that working got in the way of any of this stuff, except for getting the housework done during the school day. Though we only chose to eat as early as 5.30pm if dd had to be somewhere afterwards.

I do understand, though, that some people have very inflexible roles. I was fortunate enough to have been in a fairly senior role by the time I had dd, and I had the leverage to negotiate the hours that I wanted to work. I now try to ensure that people at all levels in my organisation are able to work flexibly around their other commitments.

There you have it, you have chosen to work. Most people don't have that option, they have to work.

I previously worked 40hrs a week Monday to Friday, when I compare that to my current situation I am far happy and healthier. I remember just how little time I actually had to myself! In fact the idea of ever returning to work makes me physically recoil.

Yeah, I've already acknowledged in a previous post that not everyone has a choice. But that applies to SAHPs as well. There are plenty of WOHMs who work because they can't afford not to, but equally, there are plenty of SAHMs who SAH because it isn't financially viable for them to work.

Those of us who have a choice are the lucky ones, regardless of which side of the fence we might sit on.

Yes, my son’s actually been asking if he can attend after school club on the days his best friend does. It sounds like they do really fun stuff there, lovely free play provision. I’ve explained to him I would feel really guilty though if we booked a space somebody who’s parents are working needs though. His school have been great in that they offer a few free extra-curricular opportunities ran by teachers until 4pm open to any parents, so we to book those to try some different things with friends. Really good of the staff.

The staff in your organisation are very lucky to have you looking out for them. That is fantastic to hear 😊

Yes, dd's primary school did a lot of free afternoon clubs after school, and dd was naturally a "joiner" so signed up for quite a lot of them!

By the time she got to secondary, she had developed a huge interest in drama, so she would frequently stay after school for rehearsals etc.

I'm not obsessed but if I thread pops up, I will comment on it because I can comment wherever I like.

It's an important societal issue and attempting to silence someone because you don't agree with them isn't a good look.

I feel really strongly about it tbh. Dh and I benefitted hugely from having flexibility when dd was younger, and tbh, I need it as much if not even more now, because I'm caring for my elderly dad.

The very least I can do is ensure that my current organisation affords the same level of flexibility to others. It isn't entirely selfless in any case...I have found that you get a much greater level of commitment from staff, better retention and overall more "good will" from staff if you support them to fit work in around the other things in their lives that are important to them. It is common sense, really.

we just do minimal housework. Neither of us are slaves to it and have done school runs and after school clubs and everything else perfectly well without either of us needing to work less. How much housework can there be?!

At no point have I attempted to silence you, I've simply pointed out you have form for leaving negative comments on this topic in particular. To quote you, that 'isn't a good look.'

I don't see women who chose to be a SAHM as a societal issue. It is nobody's business how other families want to set up.

You've done more than just simply point it out once. Of course it was an attempt to silence me, otherwise why do it?

It is a societal issue because choices aren't made in a vacuum and it affects everyone who lives in society, especially women.