To think SAHM with young DC deserve more respect

[CheekyFawn]

I work full time but currently on maternity leave looking after my 5 months old baby and a toddler DS who is 3 yo.
I just don't know where my time goes. Between breastfeeding baby, getting DS ready for preschool and tidying up the house, cooking meals etc, it just feels like there is no time at all even to have 5 mins of coffee break. I feel it was much better when I was at work couple of months ago when DS was in nursery that I used to get at least a lunch break for an hour or 30 mins at least or time between meetings to have a coffee and look at my phone in peace. I imagine this is I think how a day looks for SAHM with young DC and it's bloody hard. Many people just assume they are not doing much but I think they deserve more respect.

Of course, that sounds stressful, which is why I chose not to work with such young children. I found calling in sick at work stressful enough when I was genuinely very ill myself before I had children. If I had gone back to work I would not have tolerated my DH not sharing other domestic tasks (he always did when we both worked FT before children actually).

A lot of my posts are in direct comparison to my own teaching experiences. When I was a teacher and a 4-5 year old had a toilet accident/was sick/had a first aid incident, I had a lovely, helpful team of other teachers and TAs around me to help the children. We had wonderful cleaners, office admin teams, supply teachers and senior leaders to support class teachers with all sorts of things. It was a change for me going it much more alone day to day as a SAHM, with much younger children than I had experience of working with. I actually really missed my TA who’d worked tirelessly alongside me for almost a decade before I resigned.

Unfortunately on here, people are very defensive and forget that SAHMs compare to their previous working lives/things people tell them who work in other industries.

I was also trying to show empathy to the OP as she adjusts to being a mother of 2 instead of 1, which has nothing to do with working mothers, she’s a working mother on maternity herself remember?! It was a big jump initially as their needs were very different, they are much more in line as they get a bit older, so thought that would reassure her to know.

I actually do have several friends IRL who told me they couldn’t have imagined not having their older DC in Nursery or with Grandparents for certain days do they could fully focus on their new baby, they thought what I did was hard, so clearly others have found this a big adjustment too. Great they had help available if they needed it, not everyone does.

Thank you for clarifying that you were talking about your own personal experiences only. I have re-read your post carefully, and I still don't think that's clear, particularly as you opened your post with the generic statement about "some partnerships" and you seemed to be talking in quite general terms. Yes, you drew a comparison with your own previous lives pre-kids, but that seemed to be an afterthought because of the way in which the rest of the post was written. However, I accept that you had intended to say that you and your DH were constantly bickering and run ragged before you stopped working, and that you weren't intending to imply that this applied more generally.

I understand your irritation at the suggestion that your DH didn't benefit as a result of the domestic work and children being taken care of. That would of course be annoying to hear, and I'm not surprised that you would react against it. There will be pros and cons for each of you with regard to the way in which you've chosen to divide the responsibilities between you, as for any partnership and any set-up.

We actually didn’t bicker pre-children, as we could easily get chores done together at the weekend. I think if we had continued as we were after children (with all of their extra after school/evening/weekend commitments that any parent will be aware of) we would naturally have started to both become ever tireder and argue more. I care more about having a calm family life and happy marriage than I do about both of us running ourselves into the ground and squabbling constantly.

What I’ve learnt most from these conversations is that genuinely think we all interpret each other’s written posts differently to how we would if we all had a chat IRL. Too many things are misconstrued. So I’ll say bye for today!

As a final thought if anyone is interested have a Google of ‘Missing Mothers’- I had no idea until recently that I was part of such a large group of teacher Mums in their ‘30s leaving the profession…

I’m the daughter of 2 full time teachers (dad was a uni lecturer). It’s amazing I survived. My mum went back to work as a music teacher in the evenings 2 weeks after I was born so I had a parent with me 24/7. I was in cloth nappies and had no family within 200 miles. Dad was a Head of Subject in a creative field so lots of evening and week events. His uni studio was my second home.

Mum was building his career and when my sister and I were both in school (we started at 3 here) Dad was the one doing school runs, shopping, washing, ironing, cooking, DIY (300 year old house so constant maintenance), homework, music lessons, brownies and guides. On top of running a university department.

Both my sister and I have a phenomenal ethic around working and learning. We both have high expectations of equality in work and at home. (Sister is a single parent to a high need, non-verbal autistic little boy who can’t manage more than 2 hours in school and she still works because it is important to her.)

Mum is still working at 70. (She doesn’t need to.) Dad lectures through the U3A.

My gran always worked full time and often had more than one job (with 4 children born in a 10 year period).

I appreciate that you are sacrificing some things to have a single earner. I want to show my daughter that hard work pays off, that housework isn’t only for women and as much of the world as I can.

Feminism to me isn’t only about women having increased choices. It’s about building a world where expectations aren’t based on your sex organs and that means that children need to see both sexes engaging in all kinds of work, paid and unpaid. Choices aren’t made in a vacuum. I’ve lost count of the number of times it’s been assumed that I am Mrs DHname (I’m Ms Myname), that I should be the first contact at school, that I’ll be having more children and maternity leaves and now I get asked how my husband copes with me working away 50% of the time. I was never asked how I coped when he worked away 6 days of every week. Until men show that they take all elements of life equally seriously these assumptions will prevail. Women using phrases like “picking up housework for me to make a point” keep the utter crap the rest of us face going on and on and on.

(DH grew up in a “traditional family”. He moved far away and found himself a feminist so patterns don’t always carry on. Maybe any daughters you have will also see alternatives to your set up.”)

This all sounds great for your family. Glad it all worked out so well for them. I don’t really know what else I’m supposed to say in response to this?

What I will say is that society nowadays has no time for women who are fulfilled by being at home. As a child, I was identified as being gifted from a young age in all academic subjects. I actually scored 100% in many of my A-Levels, and I have a double first class degree from Cambridge University. None of this is being shared to boast, but to explain that I was under a great deal of pressure from teachers throughout my time in education because of my academic achievements. Despite absolutely loving academia, from as young as I can remember as a child I always knew I wanted children and that I would be a SAHM. I felt a really pull and calling towards it, I never had any genuine desire to work once I’d had children. I had absolutely no support from any teacher when they asked me what I wanted to do when I grew up, many were either baffled or made it clear that they disapproved and thought I was wasting my potential, and I think that is judgmental and wrong. I will actually be complaining if anybody does the same to my own DD should she feel the same.

So I’m very aware the my DD will get nothing but encouragement to pursue any career over staying at home, and sneered at for wanting to be at home…hopefully her seeing me enjoying being at home will actually provide her with a perfectly valid alternative.

I'm not the one who sounds obsessive here.

I can also post about whatever I like.

It is for some people though. Some love it , others absolutely detest it

Same with working then.

Indeed.

It would be hyperbole to suggest that being a SAHP was the worst thing in the world for my mother. She was not, after all, living in a war zone or dealing with extreme poverty etc. But it was certainly very bad for her mental health and overall wellbeing, and as a consequence, it wasn't great for us either.

I know it wouldn't have worked for me either. I took to motherhood very easily and I absolutely loved being on mat leave...it felt like an extended holiday and I thoroughly enjoyed it, but I think the finite nature of it was very important for me. I have adhd and I thrive best when I'm busy...I need the structure, pace and stimulation that work provides for me to function at my best. Staying at home would not have worked for me. I totally get that some people are the opposite and that they need more downtime to function. Fair enough, we are all different.

My DH tried being a SAHP for a few months when we moved house when dd was 3. He tried very hard to make it work but he felt that his world had shrunk and he didn't enjoy it. I didn't enjoy it either, I didn't like how it changed the dynamics of our relationship. But again, we're all different.

If couples decide that they want one partner to SAH and they can make it work, all power to them. I am not interested in sneering at other people's choices or pushing them to live their lives differently. I just don't want the SAHP model being pushed as some sort of ideal set-up to which people should be aspiring, because the reality is that it will be ideal for some and bloody awful for others.

Yes, absolutely.

I have appreciated your posts a great deal, they are very well written, respectful of a range of opinions and clearly appreciate individual nuances. The examples you have shared are extremely relevant to this thread. Sorry to hear things were tough for your Mum, and glad you found a different path that suits you better.

I couldn't agree more.

Though I didn't love maternity leave, I just found it dull.

Yep. Although people generally have to work to support themselves.

And they all will be whether their mothers work or not! How ridiculous!

Thank you, that's very kind.

With hindsight, I strongly suspect that my mum had undiagnosed adhd, and that the problems she experienced as a SAHP were directly linked to that. It would have been better for all of us if she had been able to work, but she was of a generation which believed that staying at home was best for the children and so she felt like she had to sacrifice her own wellbeing for our benefit. Sadly, she didn't realise until much later that having a severely depressed and frustrated mum wasn't really in our best interests either, but she did her best with what she knew at the time. And she couldn't have been more supportive of dsis and me maintaining our careers after having dc of our own, so I will always be grateful for that.

I guess it is her experience that keeps me coming back to these threads... she stayed at home because she believed that she should, and I don't want other women to feel under that level of pressure. Equally, I don't want women to feel under pressure to keep working if they want to stay at home and if their partner is willing and able to support that. Ultimately, I think children thrive best when their parents are happy and thriving, regardless of whether they WOH, SAH or some combination of the two.

You need to get better friends then.

I wouldn't holiday on a caravan site either because it's not something I would enjoy. What's wrong with that? We are all allowed personal preference. I have some very well-off friends and none of them would speak like that. None of my friends have ever complained about the size of their homes, even the one who is recently separated and living in a much smaller home.

I shop in Asda, Sainsburys and Tesco mostly. Asda is crap recently because they always are missing lots of stock.

Not in the least defensive. Just a tad reactive to being put down. Which is exactly what you are complaining of! Double standards or what!

This isn't a quote about whether or not SAHM are 'bettet' than working mothers

This was in response to a quote that said people mothers shouldn't think they deserve respect and having children wasn't a service to society.

I was agreeing that society needs children or on 50 years there will be no one to pay taxes.

Not commenting on whether or not parents work, I work.

Yes, every fucking weekend, all my annual leave, my maternity leaves. OK?

If you have never been a working mother then you have frig all experience of it! It's not rocket science! What is your experience of being a GP??? Yeah, you've never been one!

Oh my actual god, you need to get a job!!! You have far too much time on your hands. Can't believe that anyone would be "obsessive" enough to count the number of posts a person has made. Wow.

This poster is so completely tone deaf, it's off the scale.

Will never happen, for good reason. Why should you expect to be paid for sitting on your backside at home? All your strawman arguments aren't going to make a difference.

That’s actually a fair point about getting better friends, I’ve been very disappointed with direct remarks made to me from a few. Similarly disappointed with 2 male friends of my DH’s who constantly badger him about why he is still a classroom teacher after 15 years and not a deputy or head teacher. They are much more money driven than him, and openly criticise him. I don’t like it.

Agree with you about ASDA’s missing stock as well, I find online much better from there than in store, especially for clothing.

We have been judged IRL for not moving onto a bigger house. Of course everyone has personal preferences, but the tone of some of the comments made towards us truly haven’t been great.

Might end up happening if our birth rate keeps declining, you never know…