To think SAHM with young DC deserve more respect

[CheekyFawn]

I work full time but currently on maternity leave looking after my 5 months old baby and a toddler DS who is 3 yo.
I just don't know where my time goes. Between breastfeeding baby, getting DS ready for preschool and tidying up the house, cooking meals etc, it just feels like there is no time at all even to have 5 mins of coffee break. I feel it was much better when I was at work couple of months ago when DS was in nursery that I used to get at least a lunch break for an hour or 30 mins at least or time between meetings to have a coffee and look at my phone in peace. I imagine this is I think how a day looks for SAHM with young DC and it's bloody hard. Many people just assume they are not doing much but I think they deserve more respect.

You can participate on any thread you want. But if you are not a SAHM, never have been and never want to be, yet you are a permanent fixture on each and every thread about SAHMs (as some are), everyone can see that, and will interpret accordingly. That's all.

If I were on each and every thread holding any particular type of mum to account, that would speak for itself.

The way it goes on MN - anyone could post tomorrow the most bland thread title like "SAHM, on a walk AIBU." No doubt the usual people would somehow interpret this as a criticism of their parenting. And obviously, the SAHM would inevitably be required to engage in a 'structural discussion' about the impact on society of SAHMs. A SAHM could post about literally anything - brushing her teeth, doesn't matter. The predictable 'SAHM debate' would kick off, exactly as it has in this thread, exactly as it always does.

I can (although I am not!) be a "permanent fixture" on any type of thread I wish to be. When wohms are criticised, I am happy to defend!

All mothers have spent time at home with their children. Weekends, annual leave, maternity leave... But not all mums have worked outside the home. And that's why working mums have a broader perspective.

I don't understand most of your post. It doesn't make sense to me.

@DExpert

The way it goes on MN - anyone could post tomorrow the most bland thread title like "SAHM, on a walk AIBU." No doubt the usual people would somehow interpret this as a criticism of their parenting. And obviously, the SAHM would inevitably be required to engage in a 'structural discussion' about the impact on society of SAHMs. A SAHM could post about literally anything - brushing her teeth, doesn't matter. The predictable 'SAHM debate' would kick off, exactly as it has in this thread, exactly as it always does.

But no one posts "SAHM on a walk, AIBU". People post about being undervalued by society So of course a debate "kicks off". That's the whole point of it.

Please at least own the fact that SAHMs want a debate. They're not innocently going about their business being attacked by working mums. It's childish to pretend that there's no politics to this.

I've already said why I care about this issue. Being a SAHP wrecked my mum's life. And I have a daughter. I care about her future and the type of society that she will be living in. Is that so difficult to understand?

"When wohms are criticised, I am happy to defend!"

Who is criticising WOHMs in this thread though?

By all means defend 'WOHMs.' I agree 'WOHMs' are criticised , of course they are. But there's no point 'defending 'WOHMs' on threads that are not even about 'WOHMs.' The OP is a WOHM anyway (or will be soon). Again, any type of mum can feel any type of way. I can't imagine interpreting a SAHM saying she feels unappreciated as a criticism about me, or the fact I work. It makes no sense.

@MrsBennetsPoorNerves - well working probably ruined my mums life, certainly her mental health. Doesn't mean I need to project that onto women who work in general. And I also have daughters. I don't demand working mums or SAHMs to be held to account for the type of society they're going into.

I’m a SAHM, my Mum has been all types of Mum- SAHM, working Mum, WFH Mum, traditionally married Mum, widowed Mum, divorced Mum, single Mum. Always my Mum 🥰 our relationship and love goes way beyond any of these labels. I’ve always felt loved and cared for, and valued my Mum.

What I’d really love for my DD is for her to feel confident in her choices, valued and respected whatever she chooses. I will be equally proud of her if she is a SAHM, works part-time or is a CEO of her own company. I will champion and support her decisions every step of the way, supporting her with childcare, should I be privileged enough to have grandchildren and be asked.

We all have more in common than not. SAHMs still need childcare! I’ve needed help from others when I’ve been hospitalised/one child is ill but the other needs to go to school/one has a hospital appointment but the other needs collecting, etc. Nobody can do it entirely alone. Don’t we all want/need help which is reliable, flexible, affordable? Don’t we all want everybody throughout any child’s life who is involved with their care/education/health etc to care, to be competent?

I guess that's where we differ then. I think we should all be held to account for the society that our kids end up living in.

And fwiw, I'm not "projecting" anything, I am merely stating my opinions. I am aware that there are some on these boards who would like me to shut up, but that's their problem rather than mine. We are all equally entitled to contribute to these discussions as we see fit

It's the same when an OP talks about working too, especially if her children are young. It really isn't any different on here for working mothers.

Those who comment on AIBU generally know what AIBU is about and that they are inviting discussion and debate.

Oh come off it, wohms are always criticised! Re-read the thread!

I'm off to bed now. Shall I make up another highly controversial SAHM thread for tomorrow? How about 'SAHM - AIBU to feel tired?'

No, because that applies universally to all parents.

But knock yourself out.

I'm not a SAHM

My point was why does either group need to defend their choices?

@YesImawitch

My point was why does either group need to defend their choices?

Personally I don’t believe anyone does need to defend their choices.

But this is literally a thread defending the choice of SAHMS to be SAHMS. It’s inevitably going to prompt discussion.

TBF if MN is anything to go by, nobody's kids will be serving anybody since they are all geniuses with glittering futures ahead of them. Our plumbing and electrical needs should be sorted because 'trade' is just about acceptable, but heaven forfend anyone has to work in a cafe or as a cleaner. And if they do they shouldn't expect to be able to afford their own home, etc, because they didn't work hard enough at school.

You see, there's a whole load of people we don't appreciate in this country and one of the reasons for the 'entitlement' over immigrants coming to 'serve us' is that the kids my generation had 20 years ago either don't think they should have to do it or can't afford to do it.

I find it interesting how much some people are insisting the OP didn’t mean SAHP should be respected/appreciated more by wider society. I agree none of the below suggest they should be appreciated more than anyone else but all these statements from the OP definitely sound like she means they deserve more respect/appreciation generally vs from their partners/immediate family:

“Many people just assume they are not doing much but I think they deserve more respect”

“I see this opinion in my friend and family circles that SAHM don't do as much as working mums and they have got it easy”

”Being a mother is a full time job and it deserves appreciation in the form of generous maternity leaves, flexible working policy etc”

I think she has a definite point and it connects with things perceived as “women’s work” being undervalued. It is still the case that people (overwhelmingly women) who work outside the home in caring roles like as a childminder, nursery staff or carer are significantly underpaid vs people (overwhelmingly men) who do jobs like refuse collections? Why in general as a society are we prepared to pay someone more for collecting bins or driving a refuse truck than taking care of children and vulnerable adults? If we truly valued looking after children, the elderly, or vulnerable people, wages and working conditions for carers, nursery workers, and childminders would reflect that. Instead, these roles are notoriously underpaid, understaffed, and often seen as “low-skilled” even though they require immense responsibility. It’s a structural issue rooted in outdated ideas about gender and labor, and it persists even as more men enter the field and more women work outside the home.

It’s frustrating because, at the end of the day, caring work, whether at home or in a professional setting, is a key enabler to keep society running. I do wonder what would it take for that to actually be reflected in wages, policy and cultural attitudes? If traditional “women’s work” was valued more I feel like that would be beneficial to all women, regardless of whether they are parents and regardless of whether they worked outside the home.

What I’d really love for my DD is for her to feel confident in her choices, valued and respected whatever she chooses. I will be equally proud of her if she is a SAHM, works part-time or is a CEO of her own company. I will champion and support her decisions every step of the way, supporting her with childcare, should I be privileged enough to have grandchildren and be asked.

Unless people start saying this about their sons and raising them to see parenting as an equal responsibility between both parents, it’s very likely she will be in the same position as women now.

It’s frustrating because, at the end of the day, caring work, whether at home or in a professional setting, is a key enabler to keep society running. I do wonder what would it take for that to actually be reflected in wages, policy and cultural attitudes? If traditional “women’s work” was valued more I feel like that would be beneficial to all women, regardless of whether they are parents and regardless of whether they worked outside the home.

I don’t want any role that doesn’t require the active use of a vagina to be thought of as “women’s work”. In reality, until men are undertaking those roles in decent numbers, society will always favour male progression and female oppression in the workplace. (I suspect it is harder to steer away from gender stereotypes when there is a SAHM and so it continues.)

U

K

Oh my god. Make it stop!

Can you really not see how that reaction proves the point?

I’ve been both and working full time with a commute and childcare to sort is much harder.

You end up spending your down time carrying out home admin and shopping housework etc that you have no other time to do.
Plus the guilt of missing out on time with the kids.

@Thepeopleversuswork "But this is literally a thread defending the choice of SAHMS to be SAHMS."

NO IT IS NOT.

That is 100% your projection.

It is a thread from a woman on maternity leave who is reflecting, due to her own experiences right now, that SAH is probably harder than most people appreciate.

Nothing whatsoever about "defending the choice of SAHMs to be SAHMs."

Why do you need to twist any comment about or by a SAHM into a 'structural debate' about their right to even 'BE.'

This is the exact problem - right there.

But why is it OK for you to make your points but when anyone on the other side of the debate counters it’s “make it stop!”

Its childish. If you’re here you need to make peace with this being a debate and not simply put down or impugn the motives of anyone who doesn’t agree with you.

@Thepeopleversuswork - because the point I was making, was that a SAHM could post literally anything and certain posters would instantly turn it into another pointless iteration of a 'SAHM v WoHM' debate.

eg. a SAHM just posting she's tired, would become another competitive misery thread about 'SAHMs v WOHMs' who has it hardest, who has more right to be tired ......

As I said, some people just see the word 'SAHM' and get provoked.

That’s a fair point. From what I see where I live, many Mums are more militant than ever about not wanting Dads to participate. For example, one was saying to me how disgusted she was seeing her SIL ‘letting’ her husband apply suncream to their child, When I aired that myself and my DH both do this (we have 2 children, so makes sense to grab one each! 😂), she gave me a highly disapproving look. She genuinely believes you are a bad wife/mother to not be the one to solely apply suncream- not one I had ever guessed I’d be judged on, but it is what it is 😂

I actually had to pull a few Mums up recently on their sexism towards a Year 1 male teacher. They kept saying how uncomfortable he made them feel, how they don’t like men teaching younger children. I had to speak up, as my husband is a Year 3 teacher! It was so rude and insensitive. But they were like ‘oh but we know him, and he’s not a weirdo!’ Genuinely. I was shocked!

I also have a friend who’s DH is very involved, but when he made a decision recently about their DD walking to a shop with a friend she went absolutely mental at him. I agreed with his decision based on their DD’s age and maturity- what incentive is there for Dads to take ownership if they are constantly shot down?

Much work remains to be done for sure, and this requires change from Mums as well as Dads.

It's no different to a working mother asking a question about childcare, talking about dealing with illness as a working mother etc and a few people will always turn it into how childcare is the ultimate evil for young children.

It goes both ways.