Are Europeans 'pathetic European free loaders'?

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WhatsApp chat released today from the US calling Europeans 'pathetic European free-loaders'.

One of our closest allies! What about support from European countries after September 11th?

AIBU to expect more professional language?

Charles de Gaulle was very sensible not to trust the Americans. It was the Suez Crisis that made it very clear to the French that they should never rely on help from the US. Shame that we never took that lesson onboard.

I'm an American/European who has lived in the UK for many years including the lovely Brexit time.

No Europeans are not pathetic. Yes Trump is an idiot.

No, this is not a uniquely American problem. Brexit was a fucking racist undemocratic nightmare for legal EU immigrants. We then got the indignity of watching the Asshole who helped lie and usher it in become the Prime Minister.

Boris called Muslim women "letter boxes" and people still loved him. Huge percentage of the UK voted for Brexit despite the damage it would do to people in NI because they only care about getting rid of foreigners

Laughingly those people are now talking about the ties they share with Europe.

The world is a shit show, everywhere. We just ride this shower out until the next one.

Well yes arising to our ceremonial head of state is not possible here but our overall social mobility used to be one above the USA.

Brexit was many things but it was not “undemocratic”.

And insisting that it was just about racism is a good part of the reason the Remain side lost.

Well, now they're getting rid of books and cleansing curriculum, websites and databases and has a barely intelligible President, I imagine greater levels of ignorance awaits.

A sad state of affairs indeed.

That said, when trump visited London in 2018, Sadiq Khan gave permission for a giant orange helium balloon of a baby Trump, naked but for a nappy. I thought at the time that this was an utterly disgraceful action for a mayor to condone. Highly disrespectful to a long time and very strong ally - regardless of the political beliefs of anyone.

My memory was the US totally backed Sadiq Khan and stated that since free speech is the bedrock of the American way of life it was incumbent on all American administrations to respect freedom of speech wherever it existed.

Brexit was many things but it was not “undemocratic”.

Well a lot depends on how you define "democracy", really. Let's look at the US electoral college, shall we ?

Very true but also... who voted on Brexit?

What was it about?

You expect more professional language... under TRUMP?!

It’s only being called “undemocratic” by those for whom the result did not go their way.

It by was a clear case of direct democracy.

@BeSpoonyFatball. We have our own section of the UK who would think like Trump-luckily fewer of them and more parties to split the vote- there’s always plenty of populists everywhere both politicians and voters who hate anything remotely ‘liberal’ - luckily in Europe though in most places their are more proportional ways of voting - so it’s harder for any political viewpoint to become totally dominant to the extent if issuing ‘executive orders’ for message it what aren’t emergency situations- to all extents and purpose at the moment he’s a dictator because he’s cancelling off the checks and balances and any one dissenting is frightened for their job or business - personally I hope they have their Brexit moment and realise it’s all a pile of horse manure that they’ve been fed-

I don't think his eligibility will matter.

I would be genuinely surprised if the US has a free and fair election in 2028.

And German. Grandson of a draft dodger.

Many things: sovereignty, regaining full control over ones borders, a protest vote, a belief in being able to refocus trading agreements, a desire to refocus EU spending on projects, in the UK, a belief it would benefit the lowest paid, racism etc.

Not every Brexit voter will have had the same motovation.

You can say many were misguided, deluded, etc. But to insist every Brexit vote was a vote for racism is the exact kind of condescension and dismissive attitude that prompted a lot of the “protest vote” category to vote as they did.

That's a really great point!

MAGA - which means they have not been very good at much lately (actually for a long time looking at the dodgy stuff they are finding now)

Do they have room to talk?

During the run up to Trump v1.0 I spent a tortuous few hours at a friend's wedding on a table with 4 college-educated, business-owning Americans. Honestly the thickest, most insular people I've ever met and all massively pro-Trump. One of the highlights: "what you English (I'm Scottish) need is a civil war". Blank stares all round when I replied "um, pretty sure England had one of those about 200 years before the US did".

Nothing to do with speech, free or not. The balloon wasn't talking.

It was visually offensive, and designed to be so, and we were wrong to do/allow it.

I don't support Trump, but I can see that our behaviour isn't OK as well.

I would have.

Exactly this. That's why you are being unreasonable, OP. Vance in particular is gunning for Europe. With his every utterance, he is priming Americans to develop a sense of grievance about US funds being directed Europe's way.

I think all this ‘America first’ this will come to bite them on the arse both politically and financially - i don’t think there will be a sudden surge of blue collar well paid jobs that they think - could well be their Brexit moment .

Quite a lot of US farmers are already struggling from loss of grants and loss of USAID contracts. One wonders if this is a deliberate plan so that the billionaires can buy up land on the cheap.

I don’t get the surprise about this.
Trump openly stated that NATO countries were freeloading during his first term and again more recently. This is not new.
And tbf, he’s right. A lot of European countries HAVE been freeloading and not paying their NATO subs, expecting protection without paying the membership fee.
This has started to be put right now (finally).

@DdraigGoch quite- US and US business loves a bit of disaster capitalism

Not really.

Adding one meaningless word to an ambiguous word, doesn't actually prove your point. (Although it does prove something).

Your swerving a definition of "democracy" is noted. Which rather invalidates what followed.

(For reasons we can't go into here, I wonder if "JHound" is something Jonah Ryan would have called himself ? Yes, that is more Jane obscure cultural references 😀)