Are Europeans 'pathetic European free loaders'?

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WhatsApp chat released today from the US calling Europeans 'pathetic European free-loaders'.

One of our closest allies! What about support from European countries after September 11th?

AIBU to expect more professional language?

The Americans have always thought like this and have behaved like this since the end of the war. The only difference is that we can now see them doing it openly.

Europe hasn't paid its dues into NATO for years, and has chosen to rely on Putin for cheap energy. The EU has done nothing to deal with the mass wave of illegal immigrants, they despise their own voters as much as the American politicians despise Europe.

Wake up and smell the coffee, this is realpolitik.

Trump hates Europe.

I don’t think the US have been paying for and involving themselves in international warfare for many years out the goodness of their heart - it was usually to try and keep down the rise of the Russians / communism with they seemed to have an obsession with - although to be frank the Russians ironically are some of the biggest capitalists out there for those doing nicely out the system - hence why they also put a lot of soft power into things like voice of America- a bit disingenous to suddenly come along stating that they always have to come along ‘to help and pay’ - whilst at the same time always boosting their defence industry receipts. Don’t forget we had to pay reparations too for 50 years or so post Ww11,. Bet they didn’t offer us any such thing after Iraq .

That's a very valid point about Americans who are foolish enough to believe that savings will trickle down to them, Jabtastic - it doesn't work that way and never has

I can't entirely agree that the American Dream's a con though; it still exists for those able and prepared to put in the personal effort, and while far from perfect it's certainly better than systems where folk expect the state to bankroll absolutely everything

I'm not surprised. Does an administration that keeps blathering on about "making Canada the 51st state" sound like a smooth diplomatic operator?

It exists for some until misfortune hits. I watched both a relative and a friend separately go from 'top 1%' to losing everything because of serious illness in mid life. Managed out of work very quickly (after 20 plus years of service), loss of medical insurance so savings vanished, lost their homes. One was dead before he could ever get through the disability process which can take several years and requires a lawyer.

Also, most of the people in that group chat are on record banging on about Hillary Clinton's emails and saying that she should be prosecuted. They are also blaming the journalist who was added to the group chat.

There is no-one in Trumps cabinet with an ounce of integrity who would ever put country above Trump and their own careers.

The only shocking aspect about this is that they had this chat in a group with a journalist. Were they arrogant enough to forget or did they assume that the Atlantic journalist would be an American who held the same opinions as them so wouldn’t leak the story? I expect to hear lots of criticism of the publication now that they are in the Trump Administration’s cross hairs.

TBH I’m surprised how tame the language is - I would imagine Reform chats about Europeans to be littered with swear words and racist name calling and European leaders to be the same about Trump. They weren’t lucky not to be caught.

I am not surprised that they think that way about Europe and are happy to spread lies like no go areas in London. I’d be more shocked if they were respectful even though Starmer is different politically.

Europe hasn't paid its dues into NATO for years, and has chosen to rely on Putin for cheap energy.

But that's because the US has got very sniffy when countries don't buy oil (which is, of course, mainly traded in dollars).

An energy independent Europe is not in the US best interests. Hence there isn't an energy independent Europe.

And right now, as Putins left hand man, Trumps strategy is to force Europe back to buying Russian gas.

Incidentally, I suspect that France is above the UK in the Vance hate stakes. They have an independent nuclear deterrent and so the cojones to tell the US to piss off. The UK, having Trident, still has to be nice to a degree.

I think there are much bigger problems than the use of un/professional language here!

They are a bunch of clowns. No professionalism there

Obviously yanbu, op. On a separate, but related point:

The Trump administration's propensity for Doublethink and Doublespeak has reached laughable proportions. In the month following JD Vance's attack on Europe relating to free speech, a reminder that the Trump administration has:

• Removed longstanding news organisations from the Pentagon

• Restricted access to news events for storied news agency Associated Press

• Seized control of the White House press pool from news organisations

• Moved to shut outlets broadcasting Voice of America

• Attempted to discredit Jeffrey Goldberg as a journalist who 'peddles garbage' - despite the National Security Council confirming the authenticity of the Signal group chat message thread.

Joseph Goebbels has nothing on these guys.

The US is no longer an ally, it is actively working against us. Severing our complete dependence on this corrupt and dictatorial administration can't come a moment too soon.

Agreed.

Not sure we should be investing in US defence companies (directly or indirectly) for the foreseeable.

Agree with you both. The EU is now talking about £600bn which had previously not been needed due to over reliance on US.

I don’t think the US have been paying for and involving themselves in international warfare for many years out the goodness of their heart ...

Nobody suggests they have, @Crikeyalmighty; as you rightly say it's always involved their own interests too, but that hasn't stopped our leaders happily accepting the money and failing to consider what would happen if the ATM closed

It's also true that some WW2 monies have been repaid, but nothing like what the US actually spent on us - and before anyone trots out the tired line "they didn't get involved before being attacked themselves" that includes assistance which was given long before Pearl Harbor

They said the quiet bit out loud, this is what they (some of them) think. France must be feeling pretty good this morning. They own their own nukes and means to deploy them (we rent our missiles from the US, India and Pakistan also make their own). France are energy independent and have a mature nuclear power system providing cheap energy to fund infrastructure (We have a bunch of shitty windmills that are usually stationary as too windy and its nearing warm season so just stop oil idiots sticking themselves to stuff and throwing paint around). There is no way we can become AI leaders without cheap, reliable energy to support the infrastructure. France are close to being food independent (we were unable to feed ourselves in the 40s and there are more people now).
We are tag alongs and posers. We are a very, very, soft power and our recent "posing and posturing" is being called out. We send foreign aid (bribes) to countries with space programs (we've never been ourselves) and hold lots of meetings and sign 100 year deals with Ukraine while squealing for US backup and assurances. We need to start being more like France and stop relying on others.
www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-and-ukraine-sign-landmark-100-year-partnership-to-deepen-security-ties-and-strengthen-partnership-for-future-generations

@Puzzledandpissedoff whilst I agree that we shouldn’t rely on the US -and I don’t think mumsnetters have been implying as such- I certainly think this current US gvt is very much implying as such - they certainly don’t mention that most of their involvement was done with strong US interest in their too , be it political or financial.
I think all this ‘America first’ this will come to bite them on the arse both politically and financially - i don’t think there will be a sudden surge of blue collar well paid jobs that they think - could well be their Brexit moment . However happy to eat my hat if it proves otherwise-

Isn’t Mrs Vance part of the delegation sent to Greenland to make an “offer that they can’t refuse”? Europe is the buffer between the US and Russia- a fancier version of the wall between Mexico and the US.

They are right. Europe has been freeloading of the US for some time.

Europe has a GDP comparable to the US so collectively should spend as much on defence. It doesn't.

It also has paralysis of management, as there is no co-ordination for a european army, and all the leaders would probably just argue about what to do and end up doing nothing.

In the past it has been in the US's interest to defend Europe, both as a market for its products and as a buffer zone against the USSR. Now US attention is turning to China and needs to spend money on forces there to maintain its global military dominance. It rightly expects Europe (mainly the EU) to step up and fund and conduct it's own defence against the Russians. This should be relatively easy given Europes GDP, but will probably involve slimming down the social safety net.

Jeffery Goldberg, editor in chief of The Atlantic is not a Trump supporter. He broke the story about DT speaking disrespectfully about US service personnel killed in battle and his refusal to visit their graves and the story about what DT called the late President George HW Bush, a Navy flyer who was shot down ("loser")

I'm wondering if Col. Mike Waltz, who added him to the group chat really is a fan either, deep down. It seems like such a very, very odd "accident".

Do Americans use or hear phrases like “Special Relationship” or is that a term used by UK media to make the UK seem more diplomatically significant to the US?

Yes, this isn't just a Trump thing, more an American thing.

The pivot to trusting that Putin is straight with the US government is very much a Trump thing.

The op mentioned support after September 11th, Trump wasn't even in office then

There’s a major readjustment globally, not just US but China, Russia, India.

People are settled in earlier ways of looking at it. I think the US will be ok. The EU can probably get it together. There will be shifts and the unease of that.