To be horrified that Israel is slaughtering children at a rate not seen for ober

[ThisNattyTurtle]

Israel killed more children in 15 months than were killed in all the conflicts of the world in the last 4 years combined. Israel is killing children again now at an unprecedented rate and the UK is supporting it with weapons, money and intelligence.
Israel is committing genocide according to the UN, Amnesty and Human Rights Watch. Israel killed 159 Palestinians, including children, during the ceasefire - only 1 Israeli was killed in that time and that was a soldier in a friendly fire event.

Mumsnet HQ there are at least 3 threads about Ukraine still on AIBU, and many other political ones. Please do not hide this topic away in the other section again without at least explaining why UK involvement in the mass slaughter of children is not worthy of the front page. We are supporting a regime much worse than Russia, as much as Russia's regime is awful.

Because they speak and write and exist and have family who live outside Gaza. Because Israeli/Jewish journalists like Gideon Levy, Dan Cohen, have been in and out of Gaza with total liberty. See Andrey X (the.andrey.x and theandreyx) a young Russian Jew who became an Israeli citizen the realised the occupation and apartheid and has become a solidarity activist who goes alone and unarmed into the West Bank often. As do many other young Israeli peace activists. Read the Israeli soldier testimony in 'Breaking the Silence'.
Please, inform yourself about the genocide (as the UN, Amnesty, HRW) and the Apartheid (as per the UN, ICJ, HRW, Amnesty, B'Tselem, Yesh Din, Nelson Mandela, Desmond Tutu ... I mean come on, for heavens sake)

(www.instagram.com/the.andrey.x?igsh=MWJla3FscXo1MzZ3Mg==

That’s why the opportunity to return all hostages was missed. Hamas have held them for over a year.

Instead of parading poor victims alongside terrorists in coverings and weapons they should have just released all of them.

Funny thing, a lot of people heavy on the laughing emoji but very low on the sources or facts to back them up.
Facts are, Israel is an apartheid state now committing a genocide.

For those interested, an excellent source is Avi Shlaim, Professor History Oxford Uni and an Iraqi Israeli Jew. He has several excellent books and also interviews you can find on YouTube. Also the indomitable Ilan Pappe, Gideon Levy and Neve Gordon, all Israelis speaking out against their apartheid state.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=5szlS1toXsM&pp=ygULQXZpIFNobGFpbSA%3D

Many innocent Irish people were killed by both British terrorrists and British forces in NI. The British terrorists in particular targeted Irish Catholics. And have you heard of Bloody Sunday?

An apartheid state? How do you feel about islamic countries like Saudi Arabia and freedom or lack of to practice other religions there? Or is that just not trendy enough to bang on about?

Or how about the last Jew in Yemen who died recently? Can you imagine if there was only one Muslim person left in Israel....there would be rioting on the streets of the UK if that happened.

😱😱 Wow ok

Sorry how does that make Israel's behavior towards the Palestinians OK? Or is this just an attempt at whataboutery?

I'm just wondering why Israel is constantly being called an apartheid state when other countries have ethnically cleansed themselves of Jewish people, restricted religious freedom and it seems virtually no one could care less....I guess it's just not trendy enough hey?!

Its the reaction of those in western countries which interests me...

Because it is one and this is a thread about Israel killing Palestinian children, that would be why people are talking about Israel? It's the same way on Russia/Ukraine threads people talk about Russia and Ukraine.

Please show me where I said there was. Perhaps try reading the whole exchange. The previous poster asked why anyone would shoot a child even if they had been groomed. I offered one theory.

@ThisNattyTurtle Understanding Hamas’s Genocidal Ideology --> https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2023/10/hamas-covenant-israel-attack-war-genocide/675602/

This is not to deny the murderous brutality of democratic Israel regime. They were/are terrorists too. https://britains-smallwars.com/campaigns/palestine/page.php?art_url=kidnap

The poor IDF being left with literally no option but to slaughter tens of thousands of children.

I think the whole world sees what Israel is doing and the disgust they feel is hard to put in words. I doubt any of us will ever forget.

I think the whole world sees what Hamas is and thinks, well they’ve brought it on themselves.

I've just listened to testimony from Palestinian women about being raped by the IDF, having their genitals beaten by the IDF, being stripped naked and put in a room where Israeli civilians came in mocked them and took photos. Did they bring this on themselves? Is there anything a woman could do to bring this on herself. Your callous disregard for the suffering of innocent Palestinians is noted.

I would imagine you live in an echo chamber then, because most human beings don’t think there’s anything anyone could do that would justify the slaughter of so many children.

Sorry this is completely diverging from the very important topic of the mass genocide of innocent children but I just need to say please read a history book! British soldier shooting down kids in the street ring a bell? Kids shot in the back as they ran away apparently threw stones! People being hooded and disappeared in the middle of the night? Also there is evidence that government figures were involved in funding and giving orders to the terrorist organisation the UVF (ulster volunteer force) also that the orders to shoot the kids on Bloody Sunday came from government level. The IRA were scum but the reason people joined them is because catholics were oppressed, they suffered violence, couldn’t work in certain jobs etc… Hate breeds hate. There is a reason Irish people are so against oppression. Point of note too is that the violence was sparked when civil rights protesters who were looking for rights for catholics were attacked - the British army sent to protect the protesters eventually became their oppressors. The British army have committed many atrocities over the years which does not reflect on British people but on the governments of the time. Sorry I live in England and love it here but I hate ignorance - we should all question our governments and armies and ask are they behaving just and following international law.

In terms of Palestine there is so much ignorance on this thread - if you say things like Hamas trains child soldiers show your evidence, show your sources. If you say the figures are cooked well what are the real figures, what are your sources - if you put these things in a school or University essay you would be failed for not evidencing your work. Why are all the international human rights groups calling it genocide, why is the UN calling it genocide? Have you looked in twitter at the footage of dead children, bombed hospitals. Human rights workers murdered. Doctors murdered. This is all evidenced if you just look. If your facts and figures come from word of mouth or articles from Israeli papers that don’t produce evidence you need to look further and look at facts. Read widely from lots of different sources, learn to question and to think for yourself - it will blow your mind.

Another point is that Hamas does not need to groom kids to hate Israel - losing your parents, your uncles, your siblings, your cousins to bombs, losing limbs being driven out of your houses at gunpoint, arrested and held without trial, being sexually assaulted in Israeli prisons, being starved to death, being forced to live in an open air prison as Israeli bombs drop randomly from the sky - these things will make a child hate you. Israel is the biggest recruiter for Hamas!

Why did Mumsnet remove this thread temporarily with the comment "we don't allow repeated threads".

@MNHQ are you going to start applying the same rule to all the Megan threads?

Because OP started 2 threads addressing the same issue one on here & one on the board Conflict in the Middle East.

They don’t allow multiple threads by the same person and if known, will delete one. The other one has now been removed.

Actually, I didn't start a thread on the Conflict in the Middle East section, I started it in the AIBU section for traffic (having noted that lots of Ukraine threads appear here). After 15min, without explanation, Mumsnet moved my thread to the other board. After two requests for an explanation and none received, I started a thread back in AIBU, on which there are at least 3 Ukraine threads still up.

Why? Because I think having all the reputable NGOs including the UN saying that our govt is directly complicit in a genocide with one of the highest rates of child slaughter since the Rwandan genocide, is a matter for national urgent debate.

Amnesty international on why this is a genocide - short video:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=h8_18UuiAm4&pp=ygUhYW1uZXN0eSBpc3JhZWwgcGFsZXN0aW5lIGNvbmZsaWN00gcJCVoAx-z3Oj6h&rco=1

Strangely, not covered on the BBC...wonder why...

Is any of what you said true?

This video from Amnesty 2021 is the best basic intro to the situation and the conflict, from its origin through to the ongoing Apartheid. 14 min only.
(The UN, ICJ, Human Rights Watch and B'Tselem each have reports also confirming that Israel is an Apartheid state, of which the HRW is the most readable)

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CoFjbnvkmQ0&pp=ygUnYW1uZXN0eSBpbnRlcm5hdGlvbmFsIGlzcmFlbGkgYXBhcnRoZWlk