To be horrified that Israel is slaughtering children at a rate not seen for ober

[ThisNattyTurtle]

Israel killed more children in 15 months than were killed in all the conflicts of the world in the last 4 years combined. Israel is killing children again now at an unprecedented rate and the UK is supporting it with weapons, money and intelligence.
Israel is committing genocide according to the UN, Amnesty and Human Rights Watch. Israel killed 159 Palestinians, including children, during the ceasefire - only 1 Israeli was killed in that time and that was a soldier in a friendly fire event.

Mumsnet HQ there are at least 3 threads about Ukraine still on AIBU, and many other political ones. Please do not hide this topic away in the other section again without at least explaining why UK involvement in the mass slaughter of children is not worthy of the front page. We are supporting a regime much worse than Russia, as much as Russia's regime is awful.

Are we still bashing Israel rather than looking at the real terrorists and the atrocities they have committed?

What do you think of Israel refusing to move onto phase 2 of the ceasefire and have the hostages released to them and instead bombing children in their beds? Is that not an 'atrocity' to you, 200 children dead and none of the hostages freed?

What do you think of Hamas kidnapping and raping babies and children?

The vast majority in Gaza don't want to kill Israelis and plenty of far right politicians, some in govt have said some quite horrific things about Palestinians.

Of course Hamas are antisemitic but does that justify the killing of mostly innocent 40,000 plus Palestinians? or the more or less total destruction of their homeland?

The ordinary Palestinian cannot make Hamas change and Hamas don't care about them either.

Of course the attack carried out by Hamas was appalling. I think the hostages should be released which is why I think Israel should agree to moving onto the next phase of the ceasefire rather than raping and killing in Gaza which is proven not to get hostages home. That and of course their raping and killing is an atrocity just like it was when Hamas did it.

www.bbc.com/news/articles/clyr154314vo.amp

The atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki killed around 38,000 children in a split second

1.5 million Jewish children murdered in the Holocaust.

7,736 children killed in The Blitz (over 8 months)

No-one knows how many children were deliberately starved to death in the Holodomor, but certainly hundreds of thousands.

Around 25,000 children killed in the bombing of Dresden.

And almost 20,000 children murdered in Gaza which is what this thread is about.

They already did surrender and agree to release the hostages in January.
Netanyahu just broke the ceasefire he agreed to for no valid reason.

They didn’t stop the hostage returns.

As you well know the children being killed now did not rape anyone. Innocent life is innocent life. Using your logic it would be OK for me to demolish your house and maim your kids because of something your Dad or Grandad did, and claim moral superiority.

There’s zero evidence of any Palestinian children carrying arms.

They already did that? We had a ceasefire agreed on by both sides that would have released all hostages alive and dead, removed Hamas from power and ended the war.

No, they never had to admit anything of the sort. There was misinformation claiming that the UN numbers were wrong, because someone had confused the number of dead whose identities had been verified with the total body count (identified + unidentified bodies) but that was debunked.

All of those are recognised as war crimes - the clue should be that two of those were committed by the Nazis. All of them occurred before the Geneva convention and the convention was specifically supposed to prevent such war crimes occuring again. If you don't believe in that then say so and accept that you're not part of the 'rules-based order'.
Dresden bombing occurred because the Allies thought there was a big Nazi military force heading there - a big force of what was at the time one of the most advanced armies in the world, which had very nearly defeated the Allies. An actual, existential threat.
Hamas is a bunch of terrorists on motorbikes with DIY rockets, they are not an army. Israel is one of the most technologically advanced armies in the world. They could defeat Hamas through actual targeted strikes instead of 2000lb bombs flattening whole tower blocks, and street combat. Or, even better, they could defeat Hamas by following international law and ending the illegal occupation, releasing the 6000 hostages they hold, giving the Palestinians a state and some security for the first time in 56 years, thus making the secular PA the hero govt and completely obliterating any support for Hamas. It literally is that simple. They were offered all the hostages back on the 9th Oct. For essentially those terms.

The sad thing is Israel had already agreed to Phase 2 of the ceasefire, they have gone back on their word for no good reason.

@SugarandSpiceandAllThingsNaice hammas surrendered?
Said they would relinquish their vice grip on the people of Palestine?

The facts speak for themselves. This was one of the most heavily monitored and observed ceasefires ever. It is very clear that Israel broke it in numerous ways.

Where is the evidence for Hamas raping babies? Also the UN investigation into sexual violence in Israel couldn't identify actual victims because the Israeli govt blocked them at every turn.
I completely condemn Hamas and their actions but a lot of stuff has been proven to be made up propaganda (see the debunked 'beheaded babies' nonsense, as per Israeli channel 13 investigation 3 weeks after Oct. 7th).
Meanwhile B'Tselem (heroic Israeli NGO) investigation shows that Israeli soldiers routinely torture and sexually abuse prisoners. Save the Children report 2019 shows Israeli soldiers routinely physically, emotionally and sexually abuse the Palestinian children held hostages in Israeli jails.

The vast majority in Gaza don't want to kill Israelis

How do you know this?

Of course Hamas are antisemitic

Unfortunately some people are determined to deny this.

No, there was no such term in the ceasefire. I recall the mediators stating that use of propaganda wasn’t a breach of the ceasefire. Israel killing around 150 Palestinian civilians during the ceasefire was, as was their refusal to let in the minimum levels of humanitarian aid required by the ceasefire. Their refusal to move on to Phase 2 and begin bombing again was a complete break of the agreed ceasefire.

They haven’t all been returned?

I’m sorry to burst your bubble, but having spent a lot of time there several years ago, my mothers family were from the Levant- most ( not all) do want to eradicate the Jews. This is not a war of land - it’s a religious war - the hatred they feel toward the Jews because they are Jews is so entrenched and this clouds everything reasonable. I have worked with Palestinians in the kibbutz, these people were amazing and there was a real friendship. So imagine my horror when it was one of them that mapped kibbutz Kfar Aza for the baying mob to go in and essentially massacre men women , children, disabled people , old people and all their pets. It was carnage and knowing my 2 of my lovely peacenik friends were butchered to an extent it took 3 weeks to identity them will never leave me. I have issues with the current Knesset like many do - but you come into my home and butcher my family with your bare hands - I will not forgive you.

Yes, that was in Phase 3 of the ceasefire. Hamas step down from power and disband.

Because Netanyahu broke the ceasefire, also you can’t return hostages without a ceasefire to ensure safe travel by the Red Cross into and out of Gaza.